Father posts new video: ‘God will punish’ gays
Sediqque Mateen may have passed anti-gay bigotry down to his son. He put up a Facebook video saying gays should be dealt with by God, not humans. He was dressed in fatigues.
Click here for reuse options!In the video posted early Monday, Seddique Mateen says his son was well-educated and respectful to his parents, and that he was “not aware what motivated him to go into a gay club and kill 50 people.”
The elder Mateen says he was saddened by his son’s actions during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.
He then adds: “God will punish those involved in homosexuality,” saying it’s, “not an issue that humans should deal with.”
The statement, and previous videos by Seddique Mateen, lend some insight into the environment in which his U.S.-born son was raised.
Seddique Mateen hosts a program on a California-based satellite Afghan TV station, aimed at the Afghan diaspora in the in the U.S., called the “Durand Jirga Show.”
Copyright 2016 Liberaland
128 responses to Father posts new video: ‘God will punish’ gays
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crc3 June 13th, 2016 at 09:37
Now we know why the son hated gays. The father is no better than the son…
amongoose June 13th, 2016 at 10:11
Do a little digging, this guy should be a rubber room resident.
crc3 June 13th, 2016 at 11:10
I’ve dug as far as I need to. Good parenting is an art not to taken for granted…
robert June 13th, 2016 at 10:26
First Rafael cruz now we have another bible thumping moron to deal with
DogsRgoodpeople June 13th, 2016 at 10:27
Okay, looks like a case of severely repressed homosexuality made impossible to confront due to religious convictions.
I’m gonna blame the invisible sky daddy as well as the earthly weirdo daddy for this incident. They worked in conjunction .
Budda June 13th, 2016 at 11:03
Nailed it.
Mensa Member June 13th, 2016 at 11:23
>> I’m gonna blame the invisible sky daddy
So, are you going to exploit this tragedy as an opportunity to mock all people of faith?
DogsRgoodpeople June 13th, 2016 at 15:11
Not mocking. I just believe that religious delusions can prevent people from accepting the sexual desires they were born with. Homosexuals have been around forever. It’s religion that is not natural. God is a man made concept. In my opinion of course. I accept that
Robert M. Snyder June 13th, 2016 at 11:12
According to the Pew Research Center, the vast majority of Muslims across the globe believe that homosexuality is morally wrong.
Source:
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/
Mensa Member June 13th, 2016 at 11:14
How do Muslims compare to, let’s say, conservative Christians? Or Republicans?
Robert M. Snyder June 13th, 2016 at 11:17
I’m not an expert on either group. But the Pew Research study also found that a majority of Muslims believe that honor killings are sometimes justified. I suspect that very few conservative Christians would support that.
Mensa Member June 13th, 2016 at 11:20
Honor killings are cultural, rather than religious. I’ve heard several Muslim scholars point that out.
Culturally-western Muslims don’t do it, for example.
I’m not an expert but I am an Evangelical Christian and I can tell you that conservative Muslims and conservative Christians both overwhelmingly think homosexuality is morally wrong.
Liberal Muslims and Christians mostly don’t.
Robert M. Snyder June 13th, 2016 at 11:42
For logistical reasons, I suspect that the Pew study probably interviewed far more urban Muslims than rural Muslims. So the population that was surveyed was probably leaning somewhat to the liberal side.
I suspect that Muslims who have historically migrated to the US are generally far more accepting of Western values than the overall population surveyed by Pew.
If a million Muslims were selected at random from the worldwide Muslim population, and brought to America, and given citizenship, and allowed to vote in our elections, I would assume that their votes would reflect the beliefs that Muslims reported to Pew.
Back in the 1980’s, Richard Dawkins proposed the concept of “memes” being transmitted through a culture in much the same way that a virus is transmitted. I have recently been thinking about how each culture tries to reinforce its own memes.
I assume you’re familiar with the concept of herd immunity as it related to the spread of viruses. How can a culture like ours inoculate itself against the spread of undesirable memes like honor killing and stoning of gays? Wouldn’t the rate of influx (of immigrants/refugees) be an important factor?
When large number of immigrants arrive during a short time period, there is a tendency to cluster into ethnic enclaves. This is nothing new. My German ancestors did the same thing.
There are many good reasons why this happens. One of them may be that each ethnic community wants to minimize the chances of “infection” by memes that are seen as undesirable.
The Amish have been doing this for ages. They have been very slow to adopt modern technology. Many still live without electricity.
If young Amish men were committing mass shootings, I suspect that the Amish community would come under scrutiny. But during the Nickel Mines school shooting, Amish children were actually the victims of a mass shooting.
robert June 13th, 2016 at 11:21
pew forgot to mention Dont make the trip to the usa if you think its morally wrong.
Mensa Member June 13th, 2016 at 11:26
But do come to America if you want easy access to killing tools.
robert June 13th, 2016 at 12:03
or preach about god
Hirightnow June 13th, 2016 at 11:52
If so,what’s the solution?
Education, or eradication?
Robert M. Snyder June 13th, 2016 at 12:07
You suggested “Education or eradication”. Both of those options are based on the assumption that one culture is in a position of dominance where it can impose a solution (education or eradication).
I think that Richard Dawkins might describe the situation as an evolutionary struggle among a set of mutually-incompatible memes. In that scenario, the solution is not “education or eradication”, but “evolution”. The “fittest” memes will survive.
Jews and Muslims have a cultural belief that pork and shellfish should not be consumed. Those dietary restrictions were probably very sensible at a time when there was no refrigeration and very little scientific knowledge. Pork and shellfish can be deadly. But in today’s world, many Jews and (I would assume) many Muslims do not believe that eating pork and shellfish is sinful. So the old memes are giving way to new memes.
For a specific individual, these beliefs can change very quickly. But for an entire culture, the change is usually much slower. I hope that the Pew Research Center repeats their survey in ten years so that we can begin to get a sense of the speed and direction of any changes in belief.
Hirightnow June 13th, 2016 at 16:16
Education.
Got it.
Carla Akins June 13th, 2016 at 13:06
So does the vast majority of Christians, what’s your point?
Robert M. Snyder June 13th, 2016 at 13:15
My point is that the father’s statement (about God punishing gays) should not be surprising, given the fact that he is a Muslim.
I haven’t seen any recent polling on what Christians believe about homosexuality. Ireland recently voted to allow gay marriage. Are you sure that the majority of Christians still believe homosexuality is morally wrong?
Bunya June 13th, 2016 at 13:28
I think the majority of Christians and Muslims still believe homosexuality is morally wrong. It’s in their bible (one of the verses they choose to follow) and the Qur’an.
Robert M. Snyder June 13th, 2016 at 13:38
The book of Leviticus says that a daughter who has premarital sex should be killed. I’d be shocked if more than one percent of Christians living today would support that. But a majority of Muslims who took the Pew survey thought that honor killings were sometimes justified.
I think that Islam has some good things to offer. For example, I once saw an interview with a Muslim man where he was asked why women are required to cover so much of their bodies. He replied that Muslim men are also required to cover their bodies. He said that they believe in modesty, and pointed out that Muslim girls don’t obsess about their appearance to the degree that Western girls do. He said that Anorexia isn’t much of a problem in Muslim countries.
At the same time, I think it is fair to criticize certain elements of other cultures, including Muslim culture. I will say flat out, with no reservations, that honor killing is always wrong and should always be condemned.
Rejecting one element of another culture is not the same as rejecting the whole culture. It’s not an all-or-none proposition.
whatthe46 June 13th, 2016 at 14:13
Its a damn book. And I’m not going to live my life by words written by some man or men. Who gives a crap what Leviticus says. I don’t know him.
Robert M. Snyder June 13th, 2016 at 14:17
After you read the first sentence I wrote, did you even bother to read the second sentence before you responded?
“The book of Leviticus says that a daughter who has premarital sex should be killed. I’d be shocked if more than one percent of Christians living today would support that.”
How could you possibly get the impression that I was in favor of what Leviticus says?
Seriously, dude, you need to take a chill pill.
Bunya June 13th, 2016 at 15:02
In the beginning, the bible and the Qur’an scriptures almost mirrored each other. Over time, however, the bible has been edited and/or changed in some way over 300,000 times. Most of the writings in the original bible have been revised to sound less violent.
.
Many Christians today wouldn’t kill daughters who’ve had premarital sex because murder is against the law for everyone, regardless of religious belief.
Dwendt44 June 13th, 2016 at 20:39
As has been pointed out before, ‘honor killings’ are not a religious tenant. I do recall that the bible supports killing a ‘disobedient’ child.
Robert M. Snyder June 13th, 2016 at 22:34
Pew Research surveyed thousands of Muslims all around the world, and the majority indicated that they did not object to honor killings in all circumstances. It doesn’t matter whether it is a religious tenet or a cultural practice. If you select a thousand people at random from the world’s Muslim population, a majority will say that honor killings are sometimes justified. Very few Christians would support that view, regardless of what the Bible says.
whatthe46 June 13th, 2016 at 23:06
“The survey asked Muslims whether honor killings are ever justified as punishment for pre- or extra-marital sex.29
In 14 of the 23 countries where the question was asked, at least half
say honor killings are never justified when a woman stands accused.
Similarly, at least half in 15 of 23 countries say honor killings of
accused men are never justified. In only two countries – Afghanistan
(60%) and Iraq (60%) – do majorities say honor killings of women are
often or sometimes justified, while only in Afghanistan does a majority
(59%) say the same about executing men who have allegedly engaged in
pre- or extra-marital sex.”
“In all countries surveyed in Southern and Eastern Europe, Central Asia
and Southeast Asia, roughly half or more of Muslims say honor killings
of women who have been accused of pre- or extra-marital sex are never
justified.”
****
YOU LIED
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-morality/
Robert M. Snyder June 13th, 2016 at 23:36
Pew doesn’t provide an overall average. If you average the 23 countries surveyed and weight them equally, then 54.9% say that honor killings of women are never justified. This means that 45 out of every 100 surveyed thought that honor killings of women are sometimes justified.
Are you telling me that I shouldn’t be concerned about that? Take Afghanistan and Iraq for example, where 60% said that honor killings are sometimes justified. Suppose we admit a million refugees from these countries. We’ve just added 600,000 people who believe that under certain circumstances it is permissible to kill their daughter.
This does not seem like a big step forward for feminism. And while we’re at it, let’s look at some of the other issues surveyed. In virtually every country, over 90% of people thought that homosexuality and abortion are immoral.
How could any liberal who has seen these statistics not be concerned about large numbers of Muslims gaining US citizenship and voting in US elections?
If Jerry Falwell took the same Pew survey, his answers would be nearly identical to those given by Muslims. But I’m pretty sure that Jerry would not condone honor killings under any circumstances.
whatthe46 June 13th, 2016 at 23:44
you said: “Pew Research surveyed thousands of Muslims all around the world, and the majority indicated…” first you quote Pew Research, and when i said your quote was not what was stated with a link, you then back track. so anything you say is going to go under the category of B.S.
Robert M. Snyder June 13th, 2016 at 23:58
“so anything you say is going to go under the category of B.S.”
B.S. = Bob Snyder!
When I posted that “majority” statement, I was relying on memory. My memory was incorrect, but I was in the right ballpark. I should have double-checked the Pew website. Thanks for catching my mistake.
whatthe46 June 14th, 2016 at 00:49
you were relying on not being challenged. you’re the exact photo copy, mentally, of every fox brain dead fool that the RWNJ’s rely on. no fact checking. you maybe able to pull that crap over at the racist and bigot sites, but, you won’t find your pills easy to swallow here.
Robert M. Snyder June 14th, 2016 at 08:32
This is the only political blog that I read, and I like being challenged. You demonstrated that I had misstated the percentage – I was off by about five percent – and I thanked you for catching my mistake. It really is that simple. If you don’t believe me, feel free to review all of the posts that I have ever contributed. My username is not blocked. Can you find a pattern of inaccuracy and deception in my posts? I think not.
whatthe46 June 13th, 2016 at 23:14
“Very few Christians would support that view, regardless of what the Bible says.” that b.s.
Robert M. Snyder June 13th, 2016 at 23:41
Show me a list of news articles describing cases where Christian parents killed their daughter because she had premarital sex. I’ll bet you can’t find one case per year in the US.
whatthe46 June 14th, 2016 at 00:40
http://morallowground.com/2011/08/16/kevin-elizabeth-schatz-christian-
fundamentalists-spanked-7-year-old-daughter-to-death-because-god-wanted-them-to/
*** her sin apparently was worse than premarital sex.
*******************
http://myth-one.com/memorial.htm
***apparently, the murdered children in the above link, was justified because of their parents religious convictions as well. oh, and nope, none involve premarital sex.
********************
http://newspaperarchive.com/cgi/Christian-Murder/?gclid=Cj0KEQjws_m6BRCv37WbtNmJs-IBEiQAWKKt0DsfmXT3oOgY8j3YqMcVXTuEmBpAwWn3BdKnUUbgzE8aAgAG8P8HAQ
****We found 1,933,741 articles about Christian Murder. (link above)
****************
http://markhumphrys.com/christianity.killings.html
***the above link is called: Killings for Christianity
***********
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/18/white_extremist_murders_killed_at_least_60_in_u_s_since_1995.html
****your everyday “christians” don’t think they killed their daughters as an honor, but, why everyone else, still in the name of their “god.”
***************
A history of abuse and violence in families, socioeconomic factors and
jealousy on the part of husbands and boyfriends are just some of the
explanations given for the abuse of women, especially wives and
girlfriends in America.
Walk into a women’s shelter that is not targeted to a specific ethnic or
cultural group, and you will find women of all races, colors, and of
course religions. The abuse and killing of women for alleged honor crimes is not Islamic. Nor is the abuse of women inherently as “American as apple pie”.
***************
Tulsa, Okla., police officers Shannon Kepler and his
wife, Gina Kelper, were arrested for the shooting death of Jeremy Lake,
their daughter’s boyfriend. News on 6reports that Lake was walking with the Keplers’ daughter when the couple was approached by Shannon in an SUV. The daughter told police that she approached her father and he asked what she was doing in the area. Lake then approached the car to introduce himself, and witnesses report that Kepler then shot Lake two or three times. He allegedly also shot at his daughter but missed.
there are of course other murders like this. this too is an “honor” killing. i don’t know their religion, but, with this type of racist attitude, I’m sure they considered themselves “christians.” aside from that, you can best believe they felt she had “dishonored” the family by dating a black guy.
Robert M. Snyder June 14th, 2016 at 08:38
When I visited the Mark Humphreys site that you linked, I found the following text on the first page:
“Much (but not all) of Christianity’s killing is in the past. Christianity had a long run as the world’s most violent religion. But I think it is clear that the world’s most violent religion is now Islam.”
Robert M. Snyder June 14th, 2016 at 10:47
The Slate article you linked provides “…a list of 29 deadly attacks since Oklahoma City—comprising a total of 63 victims—carried out or believed to have been carried out by white extremists.”
These attacks occurred over a 20-year period between 1995 and 2015. So we’re looking at 1.5 attacks and 3 victims per year. Many of the attackers are described as “neo-Nazi” or “white supremacist”, and not described as “Christian”.
I wrote: “Show me a list of news articles describing cases where Christian parents killed their daughter because she had premarital sex. I’ll bet you can’t find one case per year in the US.”
Looks like I was right.
Carla Akins June 13th, 2016 at 13:43
The Pew Center did a study – 50-62 percent accept gays the other half does not.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/18/most-u-s-christian-groups-grow-more-accepting-of-homosexuality/
Robert M. Snyder June 13th, 2016 at 14:00
…and the trend lines are clearly heading in the direction of greater acceptance among Christians. As I stated in response to someone else, I’d like to see the Pew poll of Muslims repeated in ten years to see the speed and direction of any changes.
Mensa Member June 13th, 2016 at 11:13
Believe it or not, his statement is moderate for Afghanistan.
Specifically, the “it’s not an issue that humans should deal with.” part.
Many Muslims, and of course Fundamentalists, believe the Government must enforce their religious beliefs about sexual behavior.
allison1050 June 13th, 2016 at 11:35
Well, if we’re going to be fair then let’s add this, like those crazy extreme christian nuts that are here.
Robert M. Snyder June 13th, 2016 at 11:57
It seems that a lot of Christians, both conservative and liberal, want the government to enforce their beliefs. There is an alternative. It is called “persuasion”.
Jesus didn’t seek to change the Hebrew or Roman laws. He didn’t try to force people to live properly. Instead, he tried to change people’s hearts through the power of persuasion.
If there is a lesson to learn, perhaps it is that “memes are more powerful than laws”, which sounds a lot like “the pen is mightier than the sword”.
robert June 13th, 2016 at 12:11
If there is a lesson to learn, perhaps it is that “memes are more
powerful than laws”, which sounds a lot like “the pen is mightier than
the sword”.
———————-
careful what you ask for..
Carla Akins June 13th, 2016 at 13:05
Yeah, but Jesus has nothing to do with the Constitution and is not the leader of all religions so what he has to say makes no difference here.
Robert M. Snyder June 13th, 2016 at 13:27
A number of contributors here have identified themselves as Christians. My point was aimed at them. Perhaps I should have begun with the phrase “If you are a Christian, then consider this…”.
There have been numerous occasions when contributors have posted messages here admonishing conservatives for being hypocrites if they oppose things like welfare.
Liberals cite Christian principles when they want the government to force people to be charitable. Conservatives cite Christian principles when they want the government to force people to be virtuous.
I believe in the separation of church and state. I don’t ever want to see Billy Graham, Al Sharpton, or any other Pastor, Priest, Rabbi, or Imam in the White House, except in their capacity as ordinary citizens. When the President attends a church, synagogue, or mosque, he or she does so as a private citizen. I think it should work both ways.
But a lot of people don’t see it that way. A lot of liberals cheer when the pope chastises Republicans about charity. You can’t have it both ways.
Dwendt44 June 13th, 2016 at 20:36
Charity is not JUST a christian principle; not that christians are all that charitable.
The point about cheering when the Pope chastises Republican is because ‘we’ are not alone, that even the leader of a major religion agrees that Republicans are not particularly concerned about the poor, the hungry, and the homeless.
Robert M. Snyder June 13th, 2016 at 22:25
“even the leader of a major religion agrees that Republicans are not particularly concerned about the poor, the hungry, and the homeless”
It is not the job of the government to redistribute wealth. The government’s job is to provide for the national defense and infrastructure. Raising taxes to pay for the military, highways, bridges, tunnels, shipping channels, and national parks is fine. Stealing money from working people and handing it to lazy good-for-nothings is morally wrong.
My friend Jose is a legal Guatemalan immigrant. He has hired numerous Americans to work in his pizza shops alongside his Guatemalan relatives. None of the people he has hired was willing to work. Jose says “Americans don’t want to work.”. Now Bernie Sanders thinks that Jose should pay these lazy bums $15/hr to stand there and watch his cousins work.
The federal government needs to mind its own business. It shouldn’t be sticking its nose into people’s bedrooms, and it shouldn’t be sticking its paws into people’s wallets.
Citizens who wish to help the poor, hungry, and homeless are free to organize and operate charities to do so. But don’t tell my friend Jose that he has to pay taxes to support the lazy bums that he fired because they were unwilling to do an honest day’s work.
anothertoothpick June 13th, 2016 at 13:41
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when the do it from a religious conviction.
anothertoothpick June 13th, 2016 at 12:36
this is why I always say religion and liberty march in two different directions.
Ron Theison June 13th, 2016 at 12:39
There you go! Do you liberals still think that we should be letting Muslims into the country?
anothertoothpick June 13th, 2016 at 12:41
There is at least a billion muslims Ron.
Do you want to make all of them our enemies?
Ron Theison June 13th, 2016 at 13:05
No, but the bottom line is some of them will turn on us and for the life of me I can’t understand that you want to take the chance of continuing to let them in here. How many more dead Americans will it take for you to understand that we are making ourselves unsafe.
There is a pattern here. Muslims move to America, have children, and then said children turn on us. There is one certain way to avoid this – stop Muslim immigration.
OldLefty June 13th, 2016 at 13:13
More of our fellow Americans have turned on us.
Why is it worse when the death came at the hands of a Muslim than from a non-Muslim?
And again, what do you do about converts?
My husband is a Hindu from India. Many of his friends and coworkers are Muslim.
It is offensive to see these people spoken about like that.
But they said the same about Italians and other ethnic groups. And occasionally it was true.
crc3 June 13th, 2016 at 13:21
There are just as many so-called Christians who have killed for centuries all in the name of God. That makes them no better than any Islamic terrorist….
anothertoothpick June 13th, 2016 at 13:34
Not buying it Ron.
If we start banning people because of their religion we will be no better than
Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, or Sudan.
Religion is not a good place to draw the line in the sand.
We can do better than that.
Besides I know too many Muslims that actually love this country.
OldLefty June 13th, 2016 at 12:42
Repeat;
We don’t care about this.
If we didn’t care enough about Sandy Hook to do anything, we don’t care about anything.
And don’t forget, Ted Cruz attended a rally where the pastor called for the death penalty for gays.
You guys strengthen radical Islam by weakening the moderates.
And what will you do about the converts?
Ron Theison June 13th, 2016 at 13:14
There is nothing that can be done about American born converts except watch them closely for any radicalization. The fact is you guys strengthen radical Islam by ignoring it for what it is. My God, Obama cannot even say the words “radical Islamic terrorists” for fear of offending other Muslims who are also being killed by them. It’s time for political correctness to stop. Not even the killing of 50 gay Americans is enough to make you folks change your minds about this. Unbelievable!
OldLefty June 13th, 2016 at 13:44
1) And we have to watch for radicalization from ALL religions and especially from anybody who buys these guns.
2) You strengthen radical Islam by giving them EXACTLY what they want (Trump), weakening the moderates who are trying to affect a reformation and making it harder for Muslims to turn in other Muslims.
3) Non-Muslims Carried Out More than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks in America
4)Obama is absolutely correct (as was Bush Jr). He also doesn’t say the words “radical Christian terrorists.”
5) “Political Correctness” is a stupid, Pavlovian, meaningless phrase meant to whip up the base. In Right Wing World, it is politically correct to point to “MUSLIM!!!”, but politically INCORRECT to point to easy access to gun, when the attacker is NOT a Muslim.
6) This guy’s father came here over 30 years ago. Think who may be welcome NOW, who’s next generation may turn on us.
7) Not even the killing of 20 6 year old American was enough to make you folks change your minds about this. Unbelievable!!!
granpa.usthai June 13th, 2016 at 14:57
can the wimpy weakling Coward with the sore footie say radical WHITE CHRISTIAN TERRORIST when talking about the religious group that openly DEFIES the LAWS of EQUAL RIGHTS for ALL US Citizens?
an American radical killed Americans solely because they exercise their right to be who they are.
just like Americans who REFUSE to obey the laws of EQUAL RIGHTS for ALL under the banner of ‘christian’ beliefs.
it’s the rule of law being publically ignored that allows such acts of terror against US Citizens as this to take place to begin with.
William June 13th, 2016 at 16:22
Obama cannot even say the words “radical Islamic terrorists”
He also doesn’t say “Radical Christian Terrorist” whenever one of you Bible thumping idiots shoots up a planned parenthood clinic. Do you have some sort of point?
StoneyCurtisll June 13th, 2016 at 17:29
You forgot to finish out your comment with the obligatory “White Power” shout out….
whatthe46 June 14th, 2016 at 00:42
my GOD answer William’s question.
Red Mann June 14th, 2016 at 00:54
Do you idiots think the “Radical Islamic Terrorists” is some kind of magical incantation that will stop all terrorist activity. Do you really think that would make things better? If you do you’re a fool (well we already knew that). G. W. Bush wouldn’t use those words either because even he knew that using them would make things worse by inciting more violence. It has nothing to do with the right’s phony “Political Correctness” meme and everything to do with mature, rational thinking. Sheesh what a maroon!
whatthe46 June 14th, 2016 at 01:01
rational thought processes are not available. please excuse the fool.
Red Mann June 14th, 2016 at 01:06
Attempting to load rational thinking module…………………..Attempt failed, rational thinking not available for your model.
whatthe46 June 14th, 2016 at 01:08
LMAO! that was a great reply.
Red Mann June 14th, 2016 at 01:11
Oh yeah, you are ready to condemn all Muslims for the actions of a few, but will not condemn all Christians for the actions of the few. We call this hypocrisy.
Gina Bousquet June 13th, 2016 at 13:04
As if American fundamentalist Christians didn’t think exactly the same…
anothertoothpick June 13th, 2016 at 13:36
Hi Gina!
{Don’t want to Hijack this thread} but I was thinking about you and hoping you are feeling better.
Gina Bousquet June 13th, 2016 at 13:40
Hi dear! I’m well now, thank you! :)
anothertoothpick June 13th, 2016 at 14:00
A consequence of religion is there can not be an advancement of learning. Truth already has been spelled out for once and for all and we can only keep interpreting its obscure message.
Gina Bousquet June 13th, 2016 at 14:07
That’s certainly one aspect of it.
anothertoothpick June 13th, 2016 at 14:13
if by a “Liberal” you mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a “Liberal,” then I’m proud to say I’m a “Liberal.”
PattyJM June 13th, 2016 at 18:24
JFK nailed it when he said that!
halfwayin June 13th, 2016 at 19:14
I left off the to credit to JFK because I knew everybody at this site knew where it came from .
And you proved it Patty.
I always use that quote against all the “liberal ” haters.
anothertoothpick June 13th, 2016 at 19:22
I left the JFK credit off because I knew everybody at this site knows it, and where it came from.
And you proved it Patty.
I use that quote anytime I find a righty using the term “liberal” in a derogatory fashion.
PattyJM June 13th, 2016 at 22:13
I know how you feel. A good part of the time I feel like this penguin:
whatthe46 June 13th, 2016 at 14:18
There you go posting the same dumb ads crap you posted yesterday.
granpa.usthai June 13th, 2016 at 14:47
WTF does people of the Islamic faith have to do with radical WHITE CHRISTIAN TERRORIST in trump’s Klan?
William June 13th, 2016 at 16:19
Racist right wing idiot says what?
StoneyCurtisll June 13th, 2016 at 17:26
One of your people….
http://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2015_50/1333886/151209-robert-dear-court-yh-0526p_6864995fd304e780d3d681950984ef3a.nbcnews-ux-2880-1000.jpg
White Male Christian and Mass Murder..
I bet your two share the same profile.
crc3 June 13th, 2016 at 13:18
God gives us all free will to do what we want to do. God doesn’t intervene as radical religions believe. This is all on the scum who do the deeds. I include the NRA as part of the scum….
CHOCOL8MILK June 13th, 2016 at 13:50
For those (Right Wingers) who believe that we should not allow Muslims (they paint the whole religion as if it’s all radical Islamist), then we should not allow Christians, after all lets be consistent in our wide brush painting.
I for one can’t do that, I’ll focus on the radicalized portions of both religions. Other than the God of Abraham, Right-Wing Christians and Islamic fundamentalists have a lot in common. When one looks at the commonalities, one can see why Right-Wing Christians overlook these facts that they have in common with Islamic fundamentalists:
– Lives based on hand-picked section of religious text
– Don’t follow every rule written in their religious book, only the ones that support their ideology
– Interpret sections of their books by feelings and how each part should be followed
– Believe they are right and all others will go to hell
– Push their warped beliefs onto others who do not agree
– Want theocratic governments based on their religion
– Believe women should be subservient to men
– Say and believe abortion is murder
– Believe homosexuality is evil, should be illegal and gays punished/killed
– Education to be faith based and not based on that make believe thing called science
– Are intolerant of others who believe differently; other religions should be regulated but not theirs
– Don’t trust the U.S. Government
allison1050 June 13th, 2016 at 14:10
clap, clap, clap!
anothertoothpick June 13th, 2016 at 14:31
Hi allison1050.
I am reading the book “Dog Whistle Poliics” and it is incredible .
Every body should read this book, and thanks allison.
I have got a book you might be interested in reading.
AMERICAN FASCISTS AND THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT WAR ON AMERICA.
Chris Hedges the author challenges the Christian Right religious legitimacy and argue that at it’s core is is a mass movement fueled by unbridled nationalism and a hatred for open society.
Luv ya.
another toothpick
allison1050 June 13th, 2016 at 15:44
I’ve just made a note of your suggestion. I’m so glad you’re reading Lopez’ book! It should be required reading for all students high school and college. If I were still in Berkeley I’d sit in on 1 of his lectures. I got into a discussion with a fellow Mexicano who planned on voting for Trump, so I had to ask him if he ever really “listened” when he or other politicians spoke and Not talk through a word of his/their speeches and of course he didn’t admit to it, most people on the right and left tend to do it since they latch on to a “catch phrase or word”. I recommended this book to him near the end of our discussion. He’s single, laid off since Dec. and raising a son by himself so I had to welcome him to a large group. He’s now got no ins. so I had to welcome him again and let him know I was laid off a month away from my 61st and of course entering the time when you do need medical. He said he would read it but who really knows? I can just only hope that he learned something about Dog Whistles in general and will take the time since he now has it and will read the book. I’m off to see if I can get the book you’ve just recommended to me. Thanks for telling me about it. ;o) I forgot to mention that I also read TruthDig.com so read Hedges’ articles while there,
anothertoothpick June 13th, 2016 at 19:32
Allison you tried. I don’the think you can do much more than that.
Maybe I am a little confused here, but did you just say you got laid off? Did this happen recently?
allison1050 June 13th, 2016 at 21:13
Yes, I was laid off 5 years ago this coming September. In order to receive my extended unemployment, I of course had to maintain a list of which places I applied at, the date, phone or internet contact, talk about demeaning.
granpa.usthai June 13th, 2016 at 14:44
trump’s klan to a tea!
what a party.
Warman1138 June 13th, 2016 at 14:28
”The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance” …..Socrates. It’s one thing for people to have a faith but when that faith is used in ignorance to selectively pursue harm in others…… it becomes freaking evil.
anothertoothpick June 13th, 2016 at 14:45
Distrust of the intellectual world has always been a symptom of the christian right wing. from Hermann Goering’s fondness for a phrase from a Johnst play (when I hear the word “culture” I reach for my gun”) to the frequent use of such expressions as “degenerate intellectuals” eggheads and effete snobs and universities are the nests to reds.
Warman1138 June 13th, 2016 at 18:04
It’s like the 1930’s again.
crc3 June 13th, 2016 at 21:47
Yep and we all know what happened in Germany, Italy and Japan don’t we?
Warman1138 June 13th, 2016 at 22:53
Yep and the effects are still with us today.
OldLefty June 13th, 2016 at 14:51
Remember this?
On June 2, President Obama participated in a town hall sponsored by PBS in Elkhart, Indiana. Obama continued to answer questions from the audience after the broadcast was over.
One of those questions was from Doug Rhude, a gun shop owner. Rhude asked Obama why he wanted to “control and restrict and limit gun manufacturers, gun owners and responsible use of guns and ammunition… instead of holding the bad guys accountable for their actions?”
He told Rhude that he had just come from the Situation Room and learned of citizens within the United States who were ISIS sympathizers. But because of the NRA, Obama said, “we’re allowed to put them on the no-fly list when it comes to airlines” but not “prohibit those people from buying a gun.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlgMOmoGI-A
MIliberal June 13th, 2016 at 15:30
Well I got in trouble on some other sites for saying that “what does hating gays have to do with Obama” in reference to the right blaming Obama. Why would that comment get me in trouble?
whatthe46 June 13th, 2016 at 15:35
Because they are stupid haters who don’t have the answer for legitimate questions.
MIliberal June 13th, 2016 at 15:37
They are off the rails for sure.
robert June 13th, 2016 at 15:39
the right hates obama and you for defending him
MIliberal June 13th, 2016 at 15:50
What are they going to do when they lose again in November?
robert June 13th, 2016 at 17:36
I’m not making predictions but the Orlando shooting could sway this either way depending how each nominee answers the question(s) and you can bet this will be on everyone’s list
MIliberal June 13th, 2016 at 18:52
I’ve heard Trump and he’s a whack job as usual. Saying that Obama is secret Muslim supporting the terrorists won’t win over anyone I know. Gay hate is playing a role too.
robert June 14th, 2016 at 13:25
It doesn’t help the gop when the shooter was a regular customer at this bar. It also doesn’t help denying this is a hate crime since the FBI had their chance to lock him up or take away his gun rights. BTW where is the 911 call audio ? Are we suddenly unprivileged to have access
Richard Banville June 13th, 2016 at 19:34
It’s not going to sway the election. One candidate or the other might move the needle a couple of points for a couple of days, but that’s about it.
Trump didn’t do himself any favors by gloating about it, congratulating himself and patting himself on the back. Everything is just about him. Pathological narcissist.
robert June 14th, 2016 at 13:18
It doesn’t help anyone when terrorism is thrown into this (even though it’s been discovered his son is gay) both sides seem to agree that wannabe terrorism is ISIL terrorism…advantage > gop
StoneyCurtisll June 13th, 2016 at 17:15
Bingo~!
StoneyCurtisll June 13th, 2016 at 17:16
Ya know how to fix that?…
Don’t go to those sites~!
MIliberal June 13th, 2016 at 18:50
Is The Hill a rightie site?
Richard Banville June 13th, 2016 at 19:30
The comments section is a cesspool.
Gina Bousquet June 13th, 2016 at 19:32
It isn’t, but that doesn’t mean right-wingers won’t infest it…
Warman1138 June 13th, 2016 at 18:07
I could fill a book with the stuff I’ve been called.
Dwendt44 June 13th, 2016 at 20:27
EVERYTHING is Obama’s fault. It’s his fault that Muslims exist. It’s his fault that there are Muslims here. It’s his fault that Muslims hate gays. It’s his fault that gays exist. It’s his fault that they have clubs that cater to gays. It’s his fault that……..(fill in the blank.)
Warman1138 June 13th, 2016 at 23:00
Don’t forget bad weather, not winning the lotto, legalizing incest and mandatory pick-up truck ownership with a free confederate flag and exoneration from drunk driving and meth possession.
OldLefty June 14th, 2016 at 07:25
Remember;
http://new1.fjcdn.com/pictures/Thanks+obama+comp_69db0d_5432328.jpg
And https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/66/93/67/6693670a5b1e5d344214a5903e6a8a66.jpg
bpollen June 14th, 2016 at 04:10
I’m going to punish you for being the way I made you!
— Gawd.
Dad, lighten up! This is so embarrassing!
— Jebus
clemans June 14th, 2016 at 04:52
the shooter was a frequent patron of that club for three years…..as well as other clubs too.
bpollen June 14th, 2016 at 05:23
Doesn’t surprise me in the least. I figured his claim of ISIS affiliation was either an attempt to justify his homophobia, or a “beard” for his feelings.
Regardless of his motivation, this was one effed-up mofo.
clemans June 14th, 2016 at 06:56
I wish we could get serious about mental health.We have so many people who need help and it is so sad that they struggle and that a small portion of people needing help end up like him. Religion just seems to become the food to feed the illness in some people.
bpollen June 15th, 2016 at 06:34
For some, religion makes them a better person. For others, it’s just a framework on which to rationalize their hatred and sickness into a “good” thing.
clemans June 15th, 2016 at 07:54
You may not mean it like this, but I would say that religion shouldn’t make anybody be anything, and if it does, that would be reason enough to run as far as possible from religion.
Nobody should make us be something that isn’t in our hearts and minds to be, religion should compliment who we are not dictate it.
bpollen June 15th, 2016 at 15:48
As I look at it, some people use it as… perhaps encouragement to be a better person. They start out as good people, and use their religion as the impetus to be a “better” person. Almost like a self-help book.
I personally do not believe in religion. They are constructs FOR man, BY man. Kinda like a knife, it can be used to destroy, and in the right hands, it can create things of beauty. The sad thing is that artists come along infrequently.
clemans June 15th, 2016 at 22:20
I can see it as a way to have a social life, make your own kind of family….a sense of belonging to something. But I don’t think that we should use religion to get people to be good….never understood that. Ethics is what you have or don’t have when nobody is watching….I would hate to see people think they have to do good or some sky daddy will punish them, doing right should feel good on its own and be enough.
I agree completely with the last part…..
OldLefty June 14th, 2016 at 07:19
Beat me to it!!
Also had a gay app.
clemans June 14th, 2016 at 14:45
great minds and fast fingers…..smiles
I could make an argument that what happened was at least in part of the anti-gay groups, rather it is Muslim or Christian radicals trying to impose their will on the people. We should all be taught to love ourselves in a healthy way, the way we are, for who we are, and for what we all can become. This kid may have been taught to hate himself.
OldLefty June 14th, 2016 at 07:06
Omar Mateen: Orlando gunman was familiar face at club
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/14/us/orlando-shooter-omar-mateen/
CHOCOL8MILK June 14th, 2016 at 14:14
Omar Mateen’s wife Noor Salman went with him to Pulse nightclub and to buy ammo, might face criminal charges. She tried to talk him out of it, but failed to call the police.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/omar-mateen-wife-spotted-time-massacre-article-1.2672956