South Carolina bans abortions after 19 weeks of pregnancy
Governor Nikki Haley signed the bill into law Wednesday.
The act, proposed last year in South Carolina’s Republican-controlled legislature, passed after it was stripped of exceptions for pregnancies that result from rape of incest.
Sixteen other states have passed similar laws as conservatives have chipped away at the U.S. Supreme Court’s landmark 1973 Roe v. Wade decision to legalize abortion. Courts have overturned the bans in three states.
“I believe that life begins at conception and every step we can take to get back to that point is important,” the bill’s sponsor, Republican Representative Wendy Nanney, told Reuters. “In my view and many others’, it’s inhumane to subject that baby to pain at 20 weeks.”
Critics have said the name of the Pain Capable Unborn Child Protection Act goes against medical evidence showing that a fetus at 20 weeks cannot feel pain.
“This is a dangerous bill for South Carolina women …, made even more extreme by removing exceptions for victims of rape and incest,” Alyssa Miller, South Carolina director of public affairs for Planned Parenthood South Atlantic, said in a statement.
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148 responses to South Carolina bans abortions after 19 weeks of pregnancy
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whatthe46 May 25th, 2016 at 21:02
they will never learn will they?
Mensa Member May 25th, 2016 at 21:06
Fox News assures that conservatives an infinitely steep learning curve.
KABoink_after_wingnut_hacker May 25th, 2016 at 21:09
Conservatives really only care about zygotes.
Your children don’t matter to them until they’re of the age to enter the military.
Mensa Member May 25th, 2016 at 21:16
>> Conservatives really only care about zygotes.
If conservatives honestly cared about zygotes, they’d fund healthcare for pregnant women.
whatthe46 May 25th, 2016 at 21:32
and they wouldn’t try to shut down PP.
Mensa Member May 25th, 2016 at 21:33
Good point. Planned Parenthood keeps pregnant women healthy — and that’s good for zygotes.
whatthe46 May 25th, 2016 at 21:51
you can tell them that until you’re blue in the face and they won’t give a damn. wait, we’ve been telling them that huh?
Suzanne McFly May 25th, 2016 at 21:27
When that pendulum comes swinging back, I hope it is hard and fast enough to smack these backwoods Neanderthals back to the Stone Age.
nola878 May 25th, 2016 at 22:05
I fear that when the pendulum swings back, it’ll be drenched in the blood of all the women who died in back alley abortions. I sincerely hope not.
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Suzanne McFly May 26th, 2016 at 06:53
I hope not also.
Mensa Member May 25th, 2016 at 21:30
Sometimes Nikki Haley seems almost reasonable… but then she pulls crap like this and reminds us she’s a conservative.
amersham46 May 25th, 2016 at 21:49
What is this total obsession the Republicans have with abortion, have their states have any greater issues to deal with
Foundryman May 25th, 2016 at 22:15
Pay back to the religious right.
CommonSense May 25th, 2016 at 22:26
The murder of children is a pretty big issue, and don’t call it anything other than that.
“Women’s right to choose what they want to do to their body.”
Except that a baby isn’t part of the woman’s body. If you look up a handy dandy anatomy chart, I can guarantee that you’re not going to find “FETUS” on there.
A child coexists for a time IN it’s mother’s body. I don’t see why this is so hard for some to understand.
whatthe46 May 25th, 2016 at 22:47
pueden comprender
CommonSense May 26th, 2016 at 11:51
Nice! You can use a meme. Next time maybe find one that doesn’t show an unfertilized egg yolk. This is what it would look like.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 13:06
You saw a fertilized egg and it was a person right? Right!
CommonSense May 26th, 2016 at 16:43
Actually it is. You know it is, you simply suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
Is a child a different species from an elderly species? Of course not! It’s just a different age.
The blind stupidity that is asserted in the denial of a human fetus’s humanity is evidence of the irrationality of man as he seeks to twist the truth of God.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 17:54
Doesn’t look like a human to me. Aside from that, you need to mind your own Damn business. Its not like you give a damn. No one buys your bullsh!t.
CommonSense May 26th, 2016 at 18:59
Mind my own business concerning what? Is this site just a site for liberals to pat each other on the back?
The only reason I comment is because I care. I certainly DO give a “damn”, and I hope to stimulate thoughtful debate, not stupid remarks. If you pride yourself on being anti-Trump, you need to abide by your own rules and stop insulting people.
“No one buys your bullsh!t.”
I’m not sure about that, do you speak for everyone? You don’t have to agree with me, but do you represent everyone when you speak? Are you the great representative of Liberaland? If you want to preach minding your own business, start out by not telling everyone else what they believe.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 19:23
it’s not about “liberals” it’s about it being none of your damn business what someone else does in their personal life that doesn’t effect you. you don’t give a damn, i don’t know how many times i have to say it, but you don’t give a damn about them once they are born. what’s it to you? did your life stop yesterday because some may have had a abortion? do you go to your local hospital and deliver congratulation balloons to the new parents? no is the answer to both. so again, mind your own damn business and go bother someone else with your nonsense.
CommonSense May 26th, 2016 at 21:31
You’re labeling me! I do care about children, and I care about poverty. I just recently started commenting, and there is no evidence that I am against helping those in need. I
Again, you need to stop speaking to me as if you know me. Yes, there are “Republicans” who are bigots. Yes, there are “Republicans” who don’t care about children. That does not mean the entire party is that way, and it CERTAINLY does not mean I am that way. There are also Democrats who don’t care either, it doesn’t mean all of them are.
I don’t believe that every liberal is like you. You have a strong head, and seem to think you know what’s best. I have not classified every liberal as a “libturd/libtard” or tossed childish insults at you. Please return the favor and respect those you wish to respect you.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 21:48
i know what’s best for me you don’t. i don’t know what’s best for someone who has become pregnant to the point where i have the audacity to suggest that she has no rights to decide for herself what decision should be made. you seem to suggest that she shouldn’t have the right to make that decision based on some time limit. i don’t care if it’s 3 weeks or 5 months or whatever the case may be, that decision is hers and her physician alone. to suggest the govt. should step in and decide is not giving a damn about the child let alone the female. they (con’s) don’t even give a damn if it’s a 12 y/o rape victim. that certainly isn’t caring about the child. you and i are having words or war because you want to stick your damn nose where it doesn’t belong. PERIOD. when you become pregnant then we can talk, until then you have NO RIGHT to suggest what anyone should or shouldn’t do. the disgusting ass repukes are always shouting about “smaller government” when they want to dictate what you do in your private lives that doesn’t harm not one of them. so, yes i’m pissed. again, when you are capable of becoming pregnant, then talk until then, zip it. it’s none of your business.
CommonSense May 26th, 2016 at 22:02
How do you know I’m not pregnant? What makes you the arbiter?
If a woman who was pregnant was against abortion would you listen to her? What does it take?
This is not a question of time. This is a question of absolute truth. Murder is wrong. Abortion is murder. Therefore, abortion is wrong.
I never claimed to know what is best for you. Now that you mention it however, I do know what is best for you. It is best for you to see your sin and utter lack of goodness. You have nothing that can present you clean, nothing in yourself to boast of. I say this not to insult you, but to show you your sin. You speak as a fool, blabbering before the words of his opponent reach his mind, and drowning out any logic you hear. You do this because you do not want to know truth, and you cannot bear the truth in your current state.
I completely understand this, because I myself was once in your shoes. I was stubborn, arrogant, and slow to listen. I wallowed in my sin.
The only way to be free is to trust that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. He is the ONLY way. No other religion will suffice, no other blood will do, but His and His alone. Christ came to save people like me and you. So yes, I do care, and yes, it is my business. I have the privilege of speaking the good news to all, and you have that privilege as well. Believe in Him, for he has paid for your foolishness, in the foolishness of the crucifixion.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 22:12
if a woman is pregnant and she’s against abortion, more power to her. i hope the best for her. but, her being against abortion should make her or anyone else against it the arbiter for everyone else. and that’s the problem. being pregnant may be a blessing to you, but, that doesn’t make it a blessing for everyone else.
whatthe46 May 25th, 2016 at 22:51
“Except that a baby isn’t part of the woman’s body.”
StoneyCurtisll May 25th, 2016 at 23:35
Sock Puppet…
whatthe46 May 25th, 2016 at 23:41
yeppers.
granpa.usthai May 26th, 2016 at 01:45
as long as it’s IN the mother’s body, it’s the mother’s business.
(emphasis on the dot)
not the government, not the church’ only the mother.
otherwise, I want to see laws that force EVERYBODY except me to eat RAW DPRK OYSTERS (min. 15 -3X a day) because it’s good for your health and will make you stronger. Also, ANYONE except me who violates any of the ten commandments are to be taken outside the city gates and stoned! (preferably with the uncut stuff from the golden triangle).
it’s your body, so I’m making it my business.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 01:49
AMEN!!!!!
Dwendt44 May 26th, 2016 at 12:38
A fetus IS part of a woman’s body. It’s connected to her, sucks nutrients from her and affects her in many ways. It is NOT a separate entity.
whatthe46 May 25th, 2016 at 22:55
well, they are attacking these people for going into the “wrong” restroom. so there.
when…
Tim Coolio May 25th, 2016 at 22:15
Republicans to American women: “don’t worry, we’ll make your life / health / body decisions for you!”
whatthe46 May 25th, 2016 at 22:33
repuking women are the most stupidest females on the planet! ESPECIALLY minorities and the poor.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 01:25
while they privately have abortions cause it’s none of your business. yep that’s what they do. against gays, and they’re gay. prostitution bad, but, they spend mad money on prostitutes. gays are bad and will abuse your sons, yet, they are the rapist. they shout too damn loud.
granpa.usthai May 26th, 2016 at 01:25
EXACTLY! – and base it entirely on the part of their religious beliefs they want to distort.
Robert M. Snyder May 25th, 2016 at 22:36
The 19-week restriction of the NC law is broadly similar to restrictions that exist in many European countries. Apparently Europe is run by a bunch of Republicans! Who knew?
FRANCE
Abortion in France is legal on demand up to 12 weeks after conception (14 weeks after the last menstrual period),[1][2] since the Veil Law in 1975. Abortions at later stages of pregnancy are allowed if two physicians certify that the abortion will be done to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; a risk to the life of the pregnant woman; or that the child will suffer from a particularly severe illness recognized as incurable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_France
GERMANY
Abortion in Germany is permitted in the first trimester upon condition of mandatory counseling, and later in pregnancy in cases of medical necessity. In both cases a waiting period of 3 days is required. The counseling, called Schwangerschaftskonfliktberatung (“unwanted-pregnancy counseling”), must take place at a state-approved centre, which afterwards gives the applicant a Beratungsschein (“certificate of counseling”).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Germany
SPAIN
Abortion in Spain is legal with some restrictions. Abortion during the first trimester is legal on demand. However, abortion during the second trimester is legal for serious risk to the health of the woman or fetal deformity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Spain
NORWAY
The legality of and public opinion toward abortion in Norway has changed dramatically in the last 100 years. Current Norwegian legislation and public health policy provides for abortion on demand in the first 12 weeks of gestation, by application up to the 18th week, and thereafter only under special circumstances until the fetus is viable, which is presumed at 21 weeks and 6 days.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Norway
SWEDEN
The current legislation is the Abortion Act of 1974 (SFS 1974:595). This states that up until the end of the eighteenth week of the pregnancy the choice of an abortion is entirely up to the woman, for any reason whatsoever. After the 18th a woman needs a permission from the National Board of Health and Welfare (Socialstyrelsen) to have an abortion. Permission for these late abortions is usually granted for cases in which the fetus or mother are unhealthy. Abortion is not allowed if the fetus is viable, which generally means that abortions after the 22nd week are not allowed. However, abortions after the 22nd week may be allowed in the rare cases where the fetus can not survive outside the womb even if it is carried to term.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Sweden
whatthe46 May 25th, 2016 at 22:41
i’m sure you’d argue that this isn’t a European country when they are light years ahead of us when it comes to health care, education and gay rights and the rights of the LGBT community as a whole. furthermore, you don’t, nor any of the repuking bastards in this country have the right to tell a woman what she should do with her body and they, repukes, are not fk’n doctors and have no business interfering with the privacy of a patient and her doctor. and if anyone needs counseling in this country, it’s the bassackwards lying, hyporitical bastards that call themselves “christians” and “repukes.”
Robert M. Snyder May 25th, 2016 at 23:04
“furthermore, you don’t, nor any of the repuking bastards in this country have the right to tell a woman what she should do with her body and they, repukes, are not fk’n doctors and have no business interfering with the privacy of a patient and her doctor”
Why do you say “this country”? The whole point of my post was to show that similar restrictions exist in many of the European countries, which leads me to think that the restrictions are reasonable.
Is there any type of restrictions on abortion that you would support?
Bunya May 25th, 2016 at 23:32
Here’s an idea. When men can carry, birth and raise a child, then theycan opine about “reasonable abortion restrictions”. Until then, it is none of your business, and I suggest you concern yourself with something more important, like the thought of a Trump presidency.
Robert M. Snyder May 25th, 2016 at 23:47
Suppose a healthy woman who is carrying a healthy 8-month fetus schedules an abortion for Monday morning. On Sunday evening, she unexpectedly goes into labor and delivers a healthy baby. If she intentionally suffocates the baby on Monday morning, at the same time when her abortion was scheduled, is that anyone’s business? The outcome is exactly the same. Would you be in favor of legalizing infanticide of premature babies? Why or why not?
Dwendt44 May 25th, 2016 at 23:51
No it’s not the same. The reason, methodology, cause, and so forth all enter into any evaluation of what’s allowed and what isn’t.
If I up and shoot my neighbor for no reason, it’s clearly murder. If I up and shoot my neighbor when he’s breaking into my house with a gun in his hand, it’s self defense. If I shoot my neighbor after he’s left the country and joined ISIS and I’m a soldier in Iraq, it’s just a casualty of war.
Robert M. Snyder May 26th, 2016 at 00:00
You haven’t explained why it is different in this case. Why is it okay for a physician to kill the fetus on Monday morning while it is still in the womb, but not okay for the mother to kill the same fetus at the same point in time, just because it has exited the womb? You seem to be saying that the rights of the fetus depend entirely upon its location. Is it unreasonable to ask a healthy mother to carry a healthy fetus for one additional month? Many European countries, with generous healthcare benefits, seem to think it is not unreasonable.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 00:46
“You haven’t explained why it is different in this case.” maybe it’s because you’re not making a bit of sense. not that i’m surprised.
Robert M. Snyder May 26th, 2016 at 00:57
I’d be happy to clarify anything that wasn’t clear. Let me restate my question as clearly as I can.
If good people are supposed to care about the welfare of a baby that is born one month prematurely, then why shouldn’t good people care about the welfare of an 8-month fetus that has not yet been born?
The fetus/baby is exactly the same gestational age. One happens to be inside the womb, while the other is probably inside an incubator.
Dwendt44 said that it is not the same, and then contrasted situations involving murder and self-defense. I asked him to explain why killing an 8-month fetus is different than killing a one-month premature baby. I’m asking you the same question.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 01:15
what makes you say they don’t? where’s the proof they don’t. furthermore, there is ample proof that RWNJ’s don’t give a flying fk about the baby once it’s born. prove me wrong!
Robert M. Snyder May 26th, 2016 at 01:25
I said: “why shouldn’t good people care about the welfare of an 8-month fetus that has not yet been born?”
You replied: “what makes you say they don’t?”
My answer is that most of the people posting here seem to think that NC has no right to prevent a woman from getting an abortion after 19 weeks. I specifically asked you if there are any types of restrictions on abortion that you would support. You never answered the question.
So I will ask it again: Are there any types of restrictions on abortion that you would support? If you say “no”, then I will conclude that YOU don’t care about the welfare of an 8-month fetus that has not been born.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 01:31
it’s not about what you or anyone other than the woman and her physician, and what’s in her best interest. i don’t have a right to restrict you from buying a boat load of dildos, but, ted cruz seems to think he knows what’s best for you in that regard. it’s a private matter. PERIOD. you’re against abortion and pro death penalty. you’re for small government, but, want to govern the private lives of others. repukes talk crap about Muslims and Sharia Law, but, want to shove their fk’d up religion down the throats of every citizen in this country and if you don’t believe as they do they want to imprison you by making your lifestyle a crime. STAY OUT OF MY BUSINESS AND I’LL STAY OUT OF YOURS. you don’t care about children only your want to control their lives once they are born. or let them starve. and you know i’m not lying.
granpa.usthai May 26th, 2016 at 01:32
if your state ORDERS you to eat raw oysters by law because they deem it is healthy for you, who the hell are you to say no?
-or would you be like the other Americans here that will say it’s none of their damn business?
it’s all a matter of personal choice, GUARANTEED by The Constitution of The United States of America.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 01:34
it’s a shame he doesn’t give a damn! pisses me off. stay out of his business because he’s to busy minding yours.
Robert M. Snyder May 26th, 2016 at 01:51
I think we agree, in principle, that we don’t like others telling us what to do, or not do, as long as we are not hurting other people. But that’s where abortion gets complicated. Most people, when surveyed, express strong reservations about unrestricted abortion during the latter stages of a normal pregnancy. I am in the mainstream here. It is a small minority who advocate unrestricted abortion until the moment of birth. And this is not just an American phenomenon. Many European countries have restrictions similar to the 19-week restriction in NC.
Good people can disagree about where to draw the line, but nearly everyone thinks there needs to be some common-sense restrictions.
A young woman who used to babysit my kids went to college and gained the traditional freshman fifteen pounds. Or so everyone thought. Then one day, she suddenly went into labor and delivered a healthy baby. Apparently she had successfully concealed the pregnancy from her family and everyone else. It is not difficult to imagine a scenario where the pregnancy is discovered by the parents at the 8-month point. And it is not difficult to imagine the parents pressuring the girl to get an abortion. Most Americans, if the polls are accurate, would strongly oppose an abortion under those circumstances where the sex was consensual and the baby is healthy.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 01:54
“Most people, when surveyed, express strong reservations about
unrestricted abortion during the latter stages of a normal pregnancy.” who’s going to determine that? the government, you or her physician? STAY OUT OF IT! WHY IS THAT SO FK’N DIFFICULT? it’s not any of your business, you don’t give a damn about a child or woman you’ve never met. you don’t give a damn once they are born. the proof is in every post you’ve made.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 01:59
where’s the proof that doctors have agreed to give a woman an abortion when they are 8 months pregnant, when in fact both are healthy? where? where is the proof that healthy babies were murdered while alive after the mother gave birth at PP and their body parts were cut up and sold off to the highest bidder? oh, wait, it didn’t happen. it’s irresponsible to say something like that just as it’s irresponsible for you to spew something that you cannot back up with proof.
granpa.usthai May 26th, 2016 at 02:23
so, now our individual Constitutional Rights are to be determined by the ‘popular consensus’ of a survey?
who gave the survey?
what questions were asked in the survey?
were any of them told that they would be required BY LAW to eat 15 RAW DPRK OYSTERS 3X/day for their consensus to be legally acceptable? – and continue thereafter ?
and what if the majority want to take away my Constitutional Right to keep and bear NUCLEAR arms? – shouldn’t they be required to give up their right to keep and bear their choice of arms as well?
CommonSense May 26th, 2016 at 17:55
The Constitution does not permit Murder.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 02:07
“Are there any types of restrictions on abortion that you would support?” considering it’s not my business, considering i don’t know the circumstances of the pregnancy, considering i’m not a physician, considering i’m not the one who has to make the decision, no, there aren’t because it isn’t my place to decide for someone else what she should or shouldn’t do. neither is it yours.
CommonSense May 26th, 2016 at 17:54
My name is CommonSense, and my CommonSense detector is tingling.
Robert Snyder is making perfect sense, you simply are resorting to ad hominem attacks because you have no rebuttal.
Lyndia May 26th, 2016 at 00:22
Once a baby is born, BORN, and the mother suffocates it, THAT IS MURDER. Killing a baby that is living and breathing OUTSIDE OF THE WOMB, is a concept that you apparently don’t understand.
Robert M. Snyder May 26th, 2016 at 00:32
No, I do understand that infanticide is wrong, and I am glad that it is also illegal. I am strongly in favor of giving women ways to anonymously give up babies that they don’t want.
What I do NOT understand is how some people can be adamantly opposed to a mother suffocating a baby that arrives one month early, but have no reservations about a doctor killing the same fetus/baby if it happens to be located inside a uterus.
Is it unreasonable to ask a healthy mother to continue carrying a healthy 8-month fetus for one more month? Many European countries do NOT think it is unreasonable, because they restrict abortions to roughly the same time frame as North Carolina.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 00:45
“… and I am glad that it is also illegal.” well Hallefuckinglujah! it’s common sense! surprised you grasped that.
“What I do NOT understand is how some people can be adamantly opposed to a
mother suffocating a baby…” well, when you think that way, it’s easy for you not to understand. why? because it’s, well, stupid thinking. “Is it unreasonable to ask a healthy mother to continue carrying a healthy 8-month fetus for one more month?” proof of this please. i know you RWNJ’s have a problem with facts, i’m just giving it a shot at asking.
Robert M. Snyder May 26th, 2016 at 01:04
“Is it unreasonable to ask a healthy mother to continue carrying a healthy 8-month fetus for one more month?” proof of this please.
Proof of what? Are you suggesting that healthy mothers would NEVER abort healthy 8-month fetuses if it were legal?
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 01:12
you SAID THEY HAVE! WHERE’S THE PROOF? DON’T SAY IT UNLESS YOU CAN BACK IT UP. you’re no different than the asses that claimed, when they put a lie out there, that PP was murdering live babies and selling body parts.
granpa.usthai May 26th, 2016 at 01:21
not unreasonable to ASK, but definitely UNCONSTITUTIONAL to impose a law on citizens that don’t apply equally to others. Find something that equally intrudes on others personal life in an EQUAL manner, then present them both at the same time for EQUAL application under the law. Anything less is to deny the intruded person EQUAL RIGHTS under the law which ain’t legal in the USA.
Robert M. Snyder May 26th, 2016 at 01:37
“to deny the intruded person EQUAL RIGHTS”
Intruded person? So the fetus is an intruder? I have never heard anyone use that terminology before. I don’t think it is accurate. An intruder is someone who chooses to enter a place where they have no business. A fetus is not responsible for being in a particular place. The fetus never made a choice, therefore the fetus cannot be called an intruder.
Suppose a woman and an unrelated baby are the only people in a life raft containing ample supplies for both of them. The baby obviously cannot feed itself. Does the woman have a duty to care for the baby until help arrives? What if help doesn’t arrive for several days, or even a month? Isn’t it reasonable to expect the woman to care for the baby as long as the baby can be expected to survive and live a normal life?
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 01:45
” An intruder is someone who chooses to enter a place where they have no business. ” much like a rapist who impregnates a child or woman, which by the way, repukes say they (even a child) must carry her rapist baby to term. and with no regards to the health of the child or woman. if they die, well, that’s their “gods” will. bullsh!t.
granpa.usthai May 26th, 2016 at 02:12
not really. It’s what they MAKE their god’s will to be.
Numbers Chapter 5 gives the proper ‘godly’ way to abort an unwanted fetus.
also, god never condemned people for eating younguns’ when they was hungry (no real directions about killing them first, or if you’re really hungry, just throwing ’em to the ground and start biting into them)
CommonSense May 26th, 2016 at 18:00
“god never condemned people for eating younguns’ when they was hungry (no real directions about killing them first, or if you’re really hungry, just throwing ’em to the ground and start biting into them)”
You are sick.
God forbade murder.
Your argument is an argument from silence, and the ironic thing is that the accused party isn’t even silent to begin with.
Dwendt44 May 27th, 2016 at 00:24
Actually, according to the bible, you only were not allowed to kill fellow Hebrews.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 01:46
“Does the woman have a duty to care for the baby until help arrives?
What
if help doesn’t arrive for several days, or even a month? Isn’t it
reasonable to expect the woman to care for the baby as long as the baby
can be expected to survive and live a normal life?” that is the dumbest
analogy if ever. isn’t it also reasonable for families in need to
receive assistance? they have to feed their babies, their toddlers,
their children. wait, oops, whatever am i thinking, their born, the
repukes have cut food stamps and wic in 1/2, let ’em starve.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 01:48
and you belong to this stupid repuking party. have at it.
granpa.usthai May 26th, 2016 at 01:59
when one person tells another person what they can or cannot do concerning their self , they are intruding on that person’s personal domain.
HOPE YOU ENJOY EATING raw oysters 3X/day. Not only should you for better health, but it’ll also strengthen friendly ties with DPRK peoples (especially the oyster farmers), ’cause I’m getting ready to start some intruding of my own!
no ice, no hot sauce, no crackers for crunch (them things is bad for your health anyway) just sucking out RAW OYSTERS soon as the boat unloads them.
CommonSense May 26th, 2016 at 18:02
The raw oyster analogy is getting old, it doesn’t even apply here, and you are just distracting attention from the real issue.
I have a question for you now, and you may answer me.
Should suicide be legal? It’s people’s own bodies, can’t they do whatever they want?
Dwendt44 May 27th, 2016 at 00:23
Suicide is legal. Who are you going to prosecute?
Bunya May 26th, 2016 at 10:13
“The fetus never made a choice…..”
Yeah, neither did the Iraqi citizens before we bombed the living daylights out of them. Maybe when we first learn how to treat our fellow man, then we can worry about how to treat something that doesn’t exist yet.
.
Bunya May 26th, 2016 at 10:54
“What I do NOT understand is how some people can be adamantly opposed to a mother suffocating a baby that arrives one month early, but have no reservations about a doctor killing the same fetus/baby if it happens to be located inside a uterus.”
.
You should understand because it’s all about controlling women. Priests, pastors, ministers, etc., love to hang around PP clinics, terrorizing the patrons entering. Once this priest/pastor/minister convinces a woman to keep the baby, their job is done. I mean, their job is DONE. Regardless of what happens to the baby after its born, doesn’t interest the clergy. They couldn’t care less – as long as they’re confident in the knowledge that a slut whore who allowed herself to be brutally beaten and raped – is now paying for her sins by either giving up her life to raise a child, or going to jail for killing that child.
granpa.usthai May 26th, 2016 at 01:15
suppose they got hungry and decided to eat the baby (good book don’t specify dead or alive) – -did that back in the old days without religious folks thumping the “word of god” – and getting all wound up about having the right to butt into other folks business.
Bunya May 26th, 2016 at 10:41
Suppose you ran into a burning building and you could save only one thing, a newborn baby, or a freezer containing a dozen embryos? What would you save? What if you saw a little baby Muslim freezing in the street? Since’s she’s no longer a fetus, can you watch her suffer and die while at the same time stay, in the good graces of your god?
Robert M. Snyder May 26th, 2016 at 22:29
“Suppose you ran into a burning building and you could save only one thing, a newborn baby, or a freezer containing a dozen embryos? What would you save?”
The baby. As I have stated earlier in this thread, I am not particularly concerned about first trimester abortions.
“What if you saw a little baby Muslim freezing in the street? Since’s she’s no longer a fetus, can you watch her suffer and die while at the same time stay, in the good graces of your god?”
I rarely mention God, and I am not a religious person. About the only time you’ll find me inside a church is during a wedding or a funeral.
I hope that my response to a child freezing in the street would have nothing to do with his or her religion. At the same time, I have seen psychological experiments which make me think that most people have subconscious biases that they are not even aware of.
For example, my neighbor, who is a female school teacher, learned at a conference about an experiment in which female school teachers who were *convinced* that they had no gender bias were filmed teaching a class. When the film was analyzed, it turned out that many of them called on boys more often than girls and spent more time discussing the boys’ responses.
So I cannot say with absolute certainty that I would respond in exactly the same way to every child. But that would be my goal. If anything, I would probably overcompensate and do MORE for a child whose religion, race, or ethnicity was different than mine.
Okay, so I think I have directly answered your questions. But I don’t think that you’ve answered the question that I presented in the previous post. I will repost it below for your convenience:
Suppose a healthy woman who is carrying a healthy 8-month fetus schedules an abortion for Monday morning. On Sunday evening, she unexpectedly goes into labor and delivers a healthy baby. If she intentionally suffocates the baby on Monday morning, at the same time when her abortion was scheduled, is that anyone’s business? The outcome is exactly the same. Would you be in favor of legalizing infanticide of premature babies? Why or why not?
granpa.usthai May 26th, 2016 at 01:10
still none of their damn business. you don’t see women’s groups demanding government intrusive sperm counts to see which men are murdering potentially thousands/millions of possible pre fetuses by
MASTURBATION.
not a bad idea though if the religious reich continues to demand women be 2nd class citizens in The United States of America.
maybe forcing known Male MASTURBATERS to use a government glove that rubs ’em RAW before ejaculation would be the best solution?
whatthe46 May 25th, 2016 at 23:33
it’s NONE OF YOU FK’N BUSINESS NOR IS IT MINE! PERIOD!
granpa.usthai May 26th, 2016 at 02:04
no more than I would accept European GUN LAWS to restrict my Constitutional Right to keep and Bear NUCLEAR Arms.
Robert M. Snyder May 26th, 2016 at 02:23
You seem to have mixed feelings about the Constitution.
Earlier, you posted this: “it’s all a matter of personal choice, GUARANTEED by The Constitution of The United States of America.”
Now you seem to be saying that there are LIMITS to personal choice. I would agree with that. I certainly don’t want to see my neighbors stockpiling bazookas and flamethrowers. I suspect that you would support the idea that government should place sensible limits on gun ownership. So why shouldn’t government place sensible limits on abortion? You can call it a fetus or a baby. Regardless of what you call it, by the time it is 8 months old, it is a human life. And most advanced countries do place limits on abortion.
granpa.usthai May 26th, 2016 at 02:33
where, exactly have I placed limits on personal choice?
you’re basing the right of others to infringe on a USA person’s personal decision based on what other peoples of other countries say/do.
under the 2nd amendment, I have the right to keep and bear arms of MY choice (as there are no specifications that the NRA or acceptability of other peoples of other nations will be allowed to decide for me).
Robert M. Snyder May 26th, 2016 at 02:44
“where, exactly have I placed limits on personal choice?”
Perhaps I misunderstood you. When you mentioned a constitutional right to possess nuclear weapons, I took that as sarcasm. I assumed that you were making the point that the right to bear arms should not be unlimited. Do you really believe that people should be able to own any type of weapon, up to and including nuclear weapons? Heck, that might be enough to get you banned from this forum!
granpa.usthai May 26th, 2016 at 02:53
unlimited is what the 2nd Amendment says. Is it legal to keep and bear NUCLEAR arms? – under the Constitution, yes, but if you use them on a homemade practice range, you’re apt to get hit with a hefty fine from the EPA.
BUTT-
if you’re so willing to go with Europeans on abortion restrictions, you certainly should have no problem with accepting European firearm restrictions as well?
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 02:54
BOOM!
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 02:34
“So why shouldn’t government place sensible limits on abortion?” how many people have been affected and left without family in mass because someone had an abortion? how many families have lost loved ones and in droves at one time because of lax gun control measures? here’s a hint in case you can’t differentiate the 2. Columbine, Sandy Hook, Aurora Theatre, SC massacre (roof the bitch) etc., etc., all were and continue to this day, and we’re talking 1000’s of people because these asshats were allowed weapons when they were clearly unstable. just evil ass bastards who were hell bent on destruction. the purposeful murder of actual living beings. someone had an abortion today, and it didn’t affect 10’s or 100’s or 1000’s of people and it sure as hell didn’t affect you. but, you want to control what a woman does with her body because for some odd reason it keeps you up at night and you just can’t function throughout the day and you have to seek counseling and a psychiatrist because you can’t sleep and you need a sleep aid and an anti-depressant. it must really suck to be you.
granpa.usthai May 26th, 2016 at 02:46
they want “sensible” euro standards placed on the restrictions of what a woman wants to do with her body, but NO euro “sensible” standards on gun control. appears like Robert misunderstood what I was saying. Never said no one should not have a flamethrower, grenades, or anything else. (I prefer NUKES myself as they’re infinitely safer than NRA approved firearms) didn’t say a damn thing about ‘sensible’ infringements on the 2nd amendment, which is strictly forbidden, just saying it ain’t no more of the Europeans business what my laws say as it is my business what their laws say. Guns, abortions or eating 15 DPRK RAW OYSTERS 3X/day. Our nation, our laws.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 02:47
i know, i got it. lol
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 02:08
NO!
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 02:10
if your daughter, sister, niece, female cousin, or female friend, were raped by someone, and that person wasn’t identifiable, and they became pregnant, would you deny them the right to have an abortion and force them to follow through with the pregnancy?
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 02:21
for the sake of argument (disclaimer, i’m not suggesting this guy is a rapist) for visual effect only: if this guy raped your loved one and she became pregnant, what would you do? and she’s 13.
Robert M. Snyder May 26th, 2016 at 02:38
In case you missed it, I have already stated (perhaps to another person on this thread) that I am not particularly concerned about first trimester abortions. I want them to remain legal. If the loved one is 13, as you stated, then I would hope that her parents would help her to explore her feelings about the situation, which probably includes getting professional counseling for her. Ultimately, even though she’s very young, I think it should be her decision, and I am glad that she is legally allowed to make it. If her parents did not respect her feelings and tried to impose their will, I would hope that the law would still allow her to make the decision, and that child & family services would provide her with whatever support she needed to deal with a possible loss of parental support or conflict.
The physical appearance of the rapist makes no difference to me.
This is a very different issue from the one that I raised originally. I specifically targeted my questions to late-term abortions where the mother and fetus are both healthy, and there is no suggestion of rape or incest. I readily acknowledge that many real-life cases are complicated. But many are not complicated, and in most advanced countries, the law is clear about those simple cases. If the mother and fetus are healthy, and there has been no rape or incest, then a woman may not elect to abort the fetus after it has developed beyond a certain number of weeks. I didn’t make the laws in Germany, France, Spain, Norway, Sweden, or North Carolina. But they all are very similar, so it seems that a majority of people in advanced countries agree that the right to an abortion should NOT be unlimited.
You are part of a very small minority of people who seem to think that the life of a fetus is NEVER more important than the convenience of the mother.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 02:45
“The physical appearance of the rapist makes no difference to me.” bullsh!t. and you know it. as for late term abortions, it’s between the female and her doctor? if her life is at stake, it’s a decision she has to make. not you, not me and not the government. at no point would i want someone who uses their “religion” to decide what’s best for me or suggest i would go to hell if i did. isn’t that my choice? what do you or anyone else care about what happens with my soul. why should someone else religion bare weight on my life? what if one is an atheist? these stupid laws are not about anything other than phony ass religious nut cases wanting to pander to other religious nut cases. they don’t give a flying fk about the constitution or anyones rights, just what they think is best for someone they have never met, will never meet and don’t care about. mind your business and i will mind my own. same goes with same sex relationships. how in the hell is it affecting joe blow 5000 miles away, if two women or two men are together? it isn’t. it’s about control. period. nothing more nothing less.
Robert M. Snyder May 26th, 2016 at 03:03
” it’s about control. period. nothing more nothing less.”
The vast majority of people see it differently. That’s why current US law, and the laws of many other advanced nations, place limits on abortion. Most people consider a late-term fetus to be a human life deserving some degree of protection. Everything I have stated here tonight is well within mainstream opinion. By stating that you do not support ANY restrictions on abortion, you are basically saying that a fetus has absolutely no rights until it has emerged from the birth canal. You have every right to your opinion, but good luck in convincing a majority in ANY country to remove ALL legal restrictions on abortion.
Have you ever been present for a birth? Have you ever held a tiny newborn in your arms and fallen in love with them? I have, and I cannot imagine how anyone could allow abortion of a healthy late-term fetus/baby. Do you think only with your head, and not with your heart?
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 08:47
no the vast majority doesn’t. and it’s not the current US Law. it’s laws that are made up by state and not every state law is he same. and of all these asshats who want to control a woman’s body, it’s amazing that we even have group homes and foster parents. you’d think all these good loving “christians” who believe all children should be born, would have at least 5 adopted children per house hold. but, hey their job is done. the child is born, fk ’em.
Bunya May 26th, 2016 at 10:31
It IS about control. Women can do anything these days and we don’t require the approval of a man. All the jobs which used to be reserved for men, now include women. Men are slowly losing their control over women, and this irks the less secure men, which is why you can find these “men” standing outside Planned Parenthood clinics, terrorizing the women entering.
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“Have you ever been present for a birth?”
Have you ever been in military combat? Have you ever held the hand of what used to be your best friend until he was killed. I cannot imagine how anyone could allow the slaughter of living, breathing human beings – let alone something that doesn’t exist yet.
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Now, I ask you. Do you think only with your head, and not with your heart?
Robert M. Snyder May 26th, 2016 at 22:42
“let alone something that doesn’t exist yet.”
That’s the second time you’ve used that phrase. From a biological perspective, a person doesn’t become a person all at once. Gestation takes about 280 days (40 weeks). At one extreme, we have people defending the rights of fertilized eggs. At the opposite extreme, we have people suggesting that a 40-week fetus has absolutely no rights. I reject BOTH extremes, and so do most people when responding to opinion polls. Most people want women to have completely freedom when it comes to birth control and early-term abortion. And most people believe that if you want to abort a healthy 8-month fetus, you’d better have a pretty damned good reason.
Bunya May 27th, 2016 at 10:53
What business is it of yours if a fetus has rights? Do you plan on adopting some of the many thousands of unwanted children in this country?
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“…you’d better have a pretty damned good reason.”
Back to threatening?
Robert M. Snyder May 27th, 2016 at 12:13
“What business is it of yours if a fetus has rights?”
What business is it of yours if a prisoner held at Gitmo has rights?
The answer is simple: We are all part of the human family. We instinctively feel empathy for other people and want to protect their rights because we realize that our own rights are vulnerable and we need others to look out for our rights.
Reasonable people of good will can disagree about abortion. In an earlier post I linked a recent NY Times article in which Jimmy Carter expressed his reservations about abortion. You don’t have to be a RWNJ to feel empathy for an unborn child.
I have a mother, three sisters, a wife, and a daughter. I am glad that abortion is legal in the first trimester. But I was also present at my daughter’s birth, and I can’t understand how anyone could think it acceptable for a healthy woman to abort a healthy, 8-month fetus. If you do not feel empathy for the baby in that situation, then I think you need psychological counseling.
Bunya May 27th, 2016 at 13:24
Glad to hear you’re all in favor of rights for blastocytes, zygotes and fetuses. Too bad women don’t have any rights when it comes to monitoring their own bodies.
Robert M. Snyder May 27th, 2016 at 13:48
I wrote: “I am glad that abortion is legal in the first trimester.”
You replied: “Glad to hear you’re all in favor of rights for blastocytes, zygotes and fetuses.”
Apparently you are typing your replies without even bothering to read what I have written. You are having a conversation with the stereotypical RWNJ that lives in your head, which bears little resemblance to ME, the ACTUAL PERSON to whom you have been sending the comments you addressed to the RWNJ who lives rent-free in your head.
Get some counseling. You’ll feel better.
Bunya May 27th, 2016 at 14:07
“Get some counseling. You’ll feel better”.
After you. The counselors should be able to convince you that women’s lives matter, too.
Robert M. Snyder May 27th, 2016 at 14:55
Work on your reading skills. Slow down and read more carefully. I never said half of the things you imagined that I said.
Bunya May 27th, 2016 at 15:06
Then quit complaining about women and their bodies. If you think aborting fetuses late in woman’s pregnancy isn’t a good idea, we don’t care – and neither should you because IT’S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!
Robert M. Snyder May 27th, 2016 at 15:10
When somebody kills a fully-formed human being, it’s everybody’s business. That’s why late-term abortion is illegal except for medical necessity in most advanced countries. I will defend a woman’s right to choose during the first trimester. I will defend the baby during the third trimester. I am in the mainstream. Opinion polls have show time and time again that most people agree with this.
Bunya May 31st, 2016 at 10:04
I don’t care what most people agree with. Everybody was all for bombing the sh*t out of fully-formed human beings when we invaded Iraq. Funny how saving fetuses is “everybody’s business” until it passes through the birth canal and becomes a living, breathing human being. If the parents can’t afford to raise child and has to depend on society to help her out, then something that is “everybody’s business, becomes nothing more than a drain on society.
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By the way, Mr. “Everybody’s Business”, how many unwanted children have you adopted? Apparently none, since there’s still no shortage of children needing assistance in the world.
Robert M. Snyder May 31st, 2016 at 11:12
“By the way, Mr. “Everybody’s Business”, how many unwanted children have you adopted?”
None. How many full-term fetuses have you aborted with your own hands? I’m guessing none. Can you imagine yourself cutting a healthy kitten into pieces with a knife? A healthy puppy?
Have you ever been present for a birth? I have. Can you imagine yourself cutting a healthy full-term, fetus into pieces? I can’t.
A fertilized egg doesn’t become a person all at once. It takes nine months. Near the beginning of that process, most us of believe that the mother should be able to make the choice. Near the end of the process, most of us believe that the baby should be protected, provided there are no medical problems for the mother or the child.
You seem to think that a baby deserves zero protection by society until the moment of birth, at which point the baby deserves full protection. You are focusing on the *location* of the baby. Most of us are more concerned about the *state of development* of the baby. That’s why, in most advanced countries, abortions are permitted only during the early stages of pregnancy, except for medical necessity.
Bunya May 31st, 2016 at 12:12
“How many full-term fetuses have you aborted with your own hands?”
None. You need a medical degree to perform an abortion.
How many have you aborted, and if you have, where did you get your medical degree?
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Yes, I have been present for a birth, but it was for a birth of a baby, not a fetus. I don’t kill any living, breathing thing. I’m also a vegetarian.
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“You seem to think that a baby deserves zero protection…”
Wrong. I believe babies DO deserve protection. Fetuses, not so much. Most of you men aren’t concerned about the “state of development”. It’s more like you’re concerned about controlling women. And in most advanced countries, women are considered people with the ability to think for themselves and don’t need a man to dictate what they should and shouldn’t do with their bodies.
Robert M. Snyder May 31st, 2016 at 12:19
“And in most advanced countries, women are considered people with the ability to think for themselves and don’t need a man to dictate what they should and shouldn’t do with their bodies.”
How do you explain the following:
FRANCE
Abortion in France is legal on demand up to 12 weeks after conception. Abortions at later stages of pregnancy are allowed if two physicians certify that the abortion will be done to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; a risk to the life of the pregnant woman; or that the child will suffer from a particularly severe illness recognized as incurable.
GERMANY
Abortion in Germany is permitted in the first trimester upon condition of mandatory counseling, and later in pregnancy in cases of medical necessity. In both cases a waiting period of 3 days is required.
SPAIN
Abortion during the second trimester is legal for serious risk to the health of the woman or fetal deformity.
NORWAY
Current Norwegian legislation and public health policy provides for abortion on demand in the first 12 weeks of gestation, by application up to the 18th week, and thereafter only under special circumstances until the fetus is viable, which is presumed at 21 weeks and 6 days.
SWEDEN
After the 18th week a woman needs a permission from the National Board of Health and Welfare (Socialstyrelsen) to have an abortion. Permission for these late abortions is usually granted for cases in which the fetus or mother are unhealthy. Abortion is not allowed if the fetus is viable, which generally means that abortions after the 22nd week are not allowed.
Bunya May 31st, 2016 at 12:26
I don’t give a flying f*ck what they do in France, Germany or any other country. Many of these countries also have socialized healthcare to take care of all these babies (yes, the fetus eventually becomes a baby). Why don’t we? I don’t understand you people. The slaughter of innocent living, breathing people doesn’t seem to phase you, but the life of a fetus? We must protect it at all cost! Lucky for you, the protection ends once the fetus becomes a baby.
Robert M. Snyder May 31st, 2016 at 12:53
Earlier, you wrote: “I don’t care what most people agree with.”
Now you say: “I don’t give a flying f*ck what they do in France, Germany or any other country.”
If you were a scientist pursuing a new theory, your independent thinking would be laudable. But you are not a scientist with a promising theory. You are an extremely selfish, heartless person who is willing to slaughter a fully-formed, healthy human being that is just weeks away from entering this world. Own it.
Bunya May 31st, 2016 at 13:23
Me??? An extremely selfish, heartless person??? You’re the one who’s more concerned with saving the life of a potential person rather than that of a fully formed, living, breathing human being. But don’t worry … if a republican is elected, we’ll be back to killing more Muslim babies in yet another Muslim country soon enough. That ought to cheer you up.
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And another thing. They should take a poll. All those in favor of forced birth should register with the government. That way, we can send a letter to all those “pro-lifers” receiving social security, disability or any other government subsidies that says, “sorry, we have decreased the amount of your subsidies because we need that money to feed, clothe and house all those babies you demanded be born”. I’ll bet that’ll change your mind real quick. Money trumps life in this country. It also trumps religious beliefs. I’ll also bet that if the government started taxing churches for this same reason, they’ll change their mind about wanting to monitor the reproductive systems of females.
Robert M. Snyder May 31st, 2016 at 13:35
You’re calling a full-term fetus a “potential person”?
I’m calling YOU a potential person. Someday, if you ever develop the human traits of empathy and compassion, then you might be a person. But for now, I regard you as a potential person.
I take it back. I believe that you ARE a person, because if it came right down to it, you would not be capable of killing a full-term fetus with your own hands. Right now you are dealing with abstract concepts in your head. But when confronted with the grim reality of actually aborting a healthy, full-term fetus, I don’t think you could do it.
So why all of the mental gymnastics? What are you afraid of? That somewhere in this world a healthy woman will be forced to carry a healthy fetus for one extra month?
whatthe46 May 31st, 2016 at 13:59
19 weeks is not a full term. And mind your own Damn business.
Robert M. Snyder May 31st, 2016 at 14:15
Stop moving the goal posts. I have been consistently talking about full-term fetuses. When somebody wants to kill a healthy, full-term fetus, it’s everybody’s business.
How about giving me a list of all the places in advanced countries where a healthy woman can legally abort a healthy, full-term fetus?
I’ll wait.
Bunya May 31st, 2016 at 14:43
Really? I’m a taxpayer, why wasn’t it “my business” when we went to war? Why didn’t I have a say as to where my tax dollars went? Not everybody believes that “life begins at conception and ends at birth”, you know. Believe it or not, there are still people out there that think actual living, breathing people are more valuable than fetuses.
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I have a better idea. Why don’t you give me a list of all the countries we invaded where a healthy pregnant woman had to lose her life?
Robert M. Snyder May 31st, 2016 at 15:06
That was you last chance to participate in a fair, two-sided debate. Since you have refused to directly answer any question, this conversation is over. If you can’t play fair, then I’m not playing.
Bunya May 31st, 2016 at 15:47
Okay by me. Come back when you grow a pair and you’ve personally adopted some of these fetuses-turned-children you were so adamant about bringing into this world.
You’re a real big talker. You love to force your beliefs on others, but when it comes to taking responsibility for the consequences of those beliefs, your only answer is “But France, Spain and other countries do it”. Yeah but consider this … most of these countries have SOCIALIZED HEALTHCARE. The government pays for these children, so you don’t have to worry about shirking your responsibilities onto others.
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And I’m still waiting for your response to my question: Why don’t you give me a list of all the countries we invaded where a healthy pregnant woman had to lose her life? Go ahead. I dare you.
Bunya May 31st, 2016 at 14:36
First of all, full term abortions are EXTREMELY rare, and are done because the fetus has an abnormality, like hydrocephalus. The child will be born, but will eventually die a slow, painful death – and anybody who delights in watching a BABY die a horrible death, I would say is someone devoid of human traits.
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And I hope you have children or grandchildren of draft age, because if Trump (or even Hillary for that matter) decides to start another draft to support yet another unnecessary war, they can go and fight. And if, God forbid, they’re KIA, you can take solace in the fact that, since they’re no longer fetuses, their lives are expendable. Personally, I’ll be dragging mine over the border because I think existing life is more important than potential life.
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Why all the mental gymnastics? YOU’RE the one complaining women should be forced to carry and birth children the don’t want or can afford. And when you start adopting and supporting these children who you wanted so much to be born, then you can have a say. Until then, mind your own business.
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By the way … true story; an 11-year-old rape victim was forced to give birth to her rapist’s baby. I’ll bet you’re happy this whore/slut will have something to remember this happy occasion by. Sure, it happened in Paraguay, that ass-backwards country, but don’t think it can’t happen here under a Trump presidency.
Robert M. Snyder May 31st, 2016 at 14:55
You are exasperating. Every time I ask you a direct question, you change the subject.
I have consistently talked about “healthy” fetuses, yet you bring up hydrocephaly.
I have consistently talked about “full-term” and “8-month” fetuses, yet you bring up 19-weeks.
I asked whether you could self cutting up a healthy kitten, puppy, or full-term fetus, and you never answered the question.
I asked you for a list of places in advanced countries where a healthy woman can legally abort a healthy full-term fetus, and you have not answered that question.
Why should anyone bother to interact with you? It’s all one way. I answer your questions, but you never answer mine. All you do is deflect questions that you don’t wan to (or can’t) answer.
If your philosophy makes so much sense, then it should be easy to answer my questions.
The fact is that you are part of a very small group of people who want absolutely no restrictions on abortion until the moment of birth. I don’t know of any place on earth where this is legal, with the possible exception of places that have very primitive legal systems. Where on earth can you find completely unrestricted abortion on demand? And please don’t blow off the question.
Bunya May 31st, 2016 at 15:33
Here are my answers:
1) No, I don’t believe “healthy fetuses” should be aborted at 9 months, and they’re not (unless it’s for health reasons). And, IT’S NONE OF MY BUSINESS.
2) A fetus with hydrocephaly is not a “healthy” fetus
3) I don’t picture myself cutting up kittens or puppies, as I am not a monster.
4) And I asked you what’s the difference between killing a fetus and killing an expectant mother. Apparently, you think the life of a fetus is more important than that of an expectant mother.
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The reason I don’t answer your questions is because I can’t understand your logic. I don’t understand why someone is so adamant about bringing more children into an already overcrowded world, then bitch and moan when they get government assistance. I don’t understand how these unwanted children are forgotten about by society, until they’re 18 and eligible to die in wars. Are fetuses like new cars? Are they a precious commodity when they’re in utero, but greatly lose value once it passes through the birth canal?
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My question to you is this … why is it any of your business what a woman does with her body? How does it affect you? Do your taxes go up? Will it affect your life or your family in some way? Will somebody force you to raise that child?
Ask me the same question about unnecessary wars and I’ll be happy to let you know how a GOP decision like that affects me personally.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 02:53
it’s 7 mins til 2 and i’ve got only 5 hrs of sleep before i have to go to work. i’ll check out your responses later.
granpa.usthai May 26th, 2016 at 02:58
2:58EDT
go to bed when I want to!
oooof!
except when granma smacks me in the back of the head and tells me to get to bed
soooo
BIG YAWN!
goodnite.
Mensa Member May 27th, 2016 at 00:46
>> if this guy raped your loved one
Or, even worse, this guy:
whatthe46 May 27th, 2016 at 01:24
well, i know they’d kill themselves.
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 02:37
are you going to answer my questions or not. or is it that you won’t admit you’d be the one flying your loved one out of the country to get an abortion if it were illegal here in a blink of an eye?
Dwendt44 May 25th, 2016 at 23:56
And in Germany during the late 30’s and early 40’s, abortion was considered a capital crime punishable by up to the death penalty. Women included.
Conservatives are in good company with the Third Reich.
Robert M. Snyder May 26th, 2016 at 00:16
Jimmy Carter said, in a July 24, 2015 interview with the NY Times:
“I have never believed that Jesus would be in favor of abortion, unless it was the result of rape or incest, or the mother’s life was in danger. That’s been the only conflict I’ve had in my career between political duties and Christian faith.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/26/fashion/jimmy-carter-and-jacqueline-woodson-on-race-religion-and-rights.html?_r=0
It seems to me that good people can disagree on this issue. Personally, I am not particularly concerned about first-trimester abortions. I do not wish to see them restricted. OTOH, I am very uncomfortable with third-trimester abortions that are not due to health issues or other extenuating circumstances. If a healthy teenage girl manages to conceal her healthy pregnancy until the eighth month, and then her parents panic and pressure her to have an abortion, I believe that fetus/baby deserves protection. According to polls that I have seen, the majority of Americans agree with me on both counts (i.e. no strong concerns about first trimester abortions, very strong concerns about third trimester).
granpa.usthai May 26th, 2016 at 01:02
well, I guess the pro-lifers by government order could just throw Numbers Chapter 5 out the window too?
Robert M. Snyder May 26th, 2016 at 01:19
Lots of groups try to impose their will through government. I’m not a churchgoer, but like Jefferson, I think Jesus was a great moral teacher. Jesus did not seek to change the laws of his time. He sought to change people’s hearts. The Christians who try to impose their will through government seem to have very little faith in the approach used by Jesus. But there are far more Christians who do follow Jesus’ example and do NOT try to impose their will on others. We just don’t hear about them because they live quiet lives of dignity serving others as nurses, firefighters, teachers, etc.
amongoose May 26th, 2016 at 14:47
https://www.loc.gov/law/help/abortion-legislation/europe.php
Mensa Member May 27th, 2016 at 00:52
What is your point?
In Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court gave special protections for late-term abortions.
Late-term abortions are very rare in America. Only about 1.4% of abortions are late term and virtually all of them are for medical necessity
But the so-called pro-life movement pretends like the majority of abortions are late-term. You know, the whole “pre-born baby” nonsense.
Robert M. Snyder May 27th, 2016 at 02:05
“What is your point?”
My point is that the NC law is reasonable and not out of the ordinary.
This blog post is about the 19-week restriction recently adopted by North Carolina. Many people have posted comments characterizing this restriction as extreme. I contend that it is not extreme, and I invite readers to compare the 19-week NC restriction with the laws of numerous European countries, which are broadly similar, and in some cases MORE restrictive.
“Late-term abortions are very rare in America.”
Deaths due to school shootings are far more rare. Does their rarity mean that people should not be concerned about them?
I strongly agree that abortions should be completely legal in cases of medical necessity, at ANY stage in the pregnancy. And I will accept your contention that non-medically-necessary late-term abortions are rare. But if we eliminated the laws prohibiting non-medically-necessary late-term abortions, they might be a lot less rare.
Again, my original post was intended to make one point: The NC law is reasonable and not out of the ordinary.
whatthe46 May 27th, 2016 at 02:15
” Many people have posted comments characterizing this restriction as extreme. I contend that it is not extreme,” so, the RWNJ’s says it doesn’t matter if it’s to save the live of the mother, she should carry until they both die. now, i ask you this, who is the pregnant mother suppose to believe is looking out for her best interest? the doctor or the fake ass “christian” politicians who doesn’t give a damn if you live or die? furthermore, can you prove that pregnant women waited until they were 7 or 8 or 9 months along before they decided to abort? mind your own damn business.
Robert M. Snyder May 27th, 2016 at 07:55
I have repeatedly stated my own positions which are pretty mainstream and are definitely NOT those of right-wing nut jobs. Yet you continue to respond to me as if I support extreme right-wing positions. You appear to be living in a make-believe world where everyone who challenges your beliefs is a nut job. That little trick allows you to avoid introspection. You never have to do the hard work of re-examining your own beliefs. Instead, you just label everyone who does not COMPLETELY agree with you as a nut job.
In my opinion, you lack the courage need for intellectual growth. You are frozen in time, trapped in a rigid set of beliefs. You are the left-wing equivalent of a fundamentalist Christian.
Grow a spine.
Obewon May 25th, 2016 at 23:17
All women have a mere 10 weeks to privately chose. And 24 weeks+ with her Dr’s approval in any state per SCOTUS rulings as unanimously upheld: The U.S. standard for abortion rights was handed down by the Supreme Court in its Roe v. Wade decision of 1973. The court ruled that a woman is entitled to have an elective abortion — terminate a pregnancy for any reason — until the point when a fetus can viably survive outside a uterus. Justices cited medical research showing that viability point can begin as early as 24 weeks into the gestation period, which begins on the first day of the woman’s last period. Via Pulitzer Prize winner http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2015/may/26/family-foundation/family-foundation-says-us-among-seven-nations-allo/
Robert M. Snyder May 25th, 2016 at 23:32
It’s complicated.
According to a 2009 survey by Pew Research:
“Among both African-Americans and the general population, those who are most religiously observant are more likely to think that abortion should be illegal. For example, more than half (51%) of African-Americans who attend religious services at least once a week think that abortion should be illegal.”
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2012/07/abortion_revised_checked_final.jpg
whatthe46 May 25th, 2016 at 23:40
YAWN! http://kff.org/womens-health-policy/state-indicator/abortions-by-race/
whatthe46 May 25th, 2016 at 23:44
p.s. like you give a damn about the black populous.
Robert M. Snyder May 25th, 2016 at 23:49
What makes you think that I am not black? Do you know my race? How?
whatthe46 May 26th, 2016 at 00:19
well, you could be “black” regarding pigmentation, and related to Uncle Ben or the dumb ass justice Thomas. in that case, that would make sense. both are seriously stupid.
Mike May 26th, 2016 at 06:48
It’s funny how people don’t think their race shows when they speak or write…:)
Obewon May 25th, 2016 at 23:50
In most cases US abortion is illegal: “All women have a mere 10 weeks to privately chose.” From midpoint conception.
4+ natural miscarriages, preceding each live human birth debunk conceptionists.
mistlesuede May 26th, 2016 at 08:55
And Trump and his creepy campaign are trying to say the Clinton’s have waged “a war on women.” SMH
We are still second class citizens according to many in this country.
Mensa Member May 27th, 2016 at 00:40
I am formally trained in biblical studies and I can unequivocally say that the bible does not ban abortion.
It is ambiguous, at best.
The bible absolutely does not say that life begins at conception. Some verses indicate that life begins with first breath. One verse says that life begins before conception.
And this should not surprise anyone. They had no modern understanding of conception.
oldfart May 27th, 2016 at 09:05
IMO,
If you’re a male, you have no uterus, STFU.
If you’re a male, thumping a bible, STFU.
This is a womens issue.
Women have the right to choose.
Period.