Bernie hoping for super delegate switches
This may be the only way the math can work for Bernie Sanders.
Click here for reuse options!The Vermont senator swept Saturday’s Democratic contests in Washington, Alaska and Hawaii, easily winning the majority of the 142 pledged delegates in those states. The biggest prize of the day was in Washington, which offered 101 delegates to be split up on a proportional basis.
The latest delegate counts still put Sanders behind Clinton, however, with 1,004 pledged delegates to her 1,712.
Of those, 469 are superdelegates who have pledged to Clinton and only 29 have pledged to Sanders.
Copyright 2016 Liberaland
237 responses to Bernie hoping for super delegate switches
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mea_mark March 27th, 2016 at 10:28
For more info on superdelegates and how to send a message to them … http://unifylabor.org/super/ Help them Feel the Bern.
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 11:22
I hope they obey their mandate
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 12:51
You do understand who ‘super delegates’ are, and how they work in the nomination process, right? They don’t have a “mandate”, they get to choose who they vote for. They’re separate from the “pledged delegates” decided by the primaries and caucuses.
Or maybe you mean they should be mandated to vote for the winner of their state? In which case, Sanders would actually have a lot more superdelegate support than he currently does – he swept Washington, but of the 17 superdelegates, 9 have announced they plan to vote for Clinton at the convention.
Can I assume you want them to vote for Sanders instead, for a “mandate”?
mea_mark March 27th, 2016 at 13:05
There is already a move taking place to vote out of office superdelegates that vote contrary to their constituency. Should be interesting to see what happens. The DNC may have to re-think how they do things and who they let run the show.
jybarz March 27th, 2016 at 13:54
Anything is possible with the current DNC under DWS who was Hillary’s former campaign manager in 2008. I think she still thinks she is in her former position with Hillary. There’s so much controversies already since last year with the DNC bias.
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 14:15
lol, only in weak minds who see conspiracy’s everywhere.
mea_mark March 27th, 2016 at 15:33
Yup, and I’m doing what I can to help get DWS removed from politics. Hopefully Tim Canova wins the primaries and DWS is out of the running. I would look at the democrats more favorably if they had gotten rid of DWS, but they didn’t. The democrats are doing to this to themselves. They really don’t seem to understand that some people will just not put up with that much BS.
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 16:02
Then tell alan about YOUR Bernie bias…we will
bloggo March 27th, 2016 at 16:21
What’s wrong with someone having an opinion? Do you think that anyone who mods here is required to be a Hillary Clinton supporter? I don’t see anything untoward being said or done?
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 16:27
MODS…and I’m one too. do NOT have their bias on duty…maybe you can’t grasp that concept.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 16:52
Talking down to HRC supporters is the problem. Disagreeing is fine. Most websites do not have moderators doing campaigning on threads though. It does happen here.
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 13:42
And I’ll bet you even think YOU vote for president too
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 13:48
It’s funny, how you guys keep trying to throw insults at me, and get it all so completely wrong. I’m Australian – I don’t even remotely think that I vote for your president. And yet, I know more about your political system than you do, it seems.
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 13:52
You aren’t worth the effort…you just think you are …go away little boy like I asked you to
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 13:53
People who are anal don’t usually understand sarcasm. That must be his problem.
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 14:02
I see you STILL haven’t acknowledged that you got your facts wrong.
You know why Sanders supporters are “whining” in your eyes? Because when the law is on your side, argue the law; and when the facts are on your side, argue the facts. When you don’t have the law on your side, when you don’t have the facts on your side, bang your fist on the defense table as loud as you can. Sanders supporters have the law on their side, and they have the facts on their side.
You’re just banging your fists on the table as loud as possible. Hence why the only “facts” you’ve put forward have been proven wrong, and when called on them, you resort to namecalling rather than addressing those facts.
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 15:52
not the brightest bulb in the box are you
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 14:08
And yet, you felt the need to reply to me, anyway. If I matter so little to you, if my points aren’t accurate, why do you feel the need to respond (without actually responding to the points themselves)?
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 14:15
more trolling, are you gazing in your mirror while typing?
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 13:52
You’re not familiar with sarcasm?
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 14:14
.I bet you recite that self affirmation schtick everymorning while gazing at yourself in the mirroe
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 14:19
Ah, now I see what’s happening. For all your assertions about me not being worth it, I’ve become your new target. You’re replying to every one of my comments, with nothing but off-topic insults.
Please, let me know one example of a false claim I’ve made, an inaccurate statement about how your political system works, etc. If you can name a single one, I’ll acknowledge that I’m mistaken. Because that’s what reasonable people do when they are wrong – they admit to their mistake, and apologise for it.
So far, you, mistlesuede, rg9rts, and The Original Just Me have spent a lot of time insulting “Bernie bros”, and me, and yet I haven’t seen one counterargument to any of my points. Not one.
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 16:10
whiny.
The Original Just Me March 27th, 2016 at 14:49
You are about as much Australian as I am African. I know and converse with several people from Australia and I do quite a bit of Medical research study on Australian Internet. I see NO similarities between your posts and Australian Culture or background. You are skilled in your speaking. I will give you that. But, it is glaringly obvious that you are on here only for the purpose of starting arguments. By the number of comments you have made, it shows that you are a recent interloper. You sir are a Republican Troll. You are only on here to start arguments with people who seem to support Hilary. Your knowledge of U.S. political systems is quite accurate and in depth. Much more so than any common person. Therefore it is easy to believe that you are an educated person. But, all of your comments have a decided slant towards an Anti-Hilary stance. Your’s is a purposeful mission and you are as Phony as can be.
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 15:10
You don’t know much at all about Australia, do you? You think that we’re a homogeneous group. The sad part is, no matter what I say, you’re not going to believe it. I could pull out all of the classic ocker slang, but I’d imagine every American knows how to imitate it. Truth be told, I never use those slang terms in real life, anyway – except maybe the occasional use of “Dunny” for toilet. If you’d like, I can demonstrate my extensive knowledge of Australian politics – for instance, I could talk about the Australian equivalent of Sarah Palin – her name is Pauline Hanson. Are you aware of “Choppergate”? How about the rise of the Palmer United Party? Or would you rather I talk about aboriginal culture?
My comments aren’t anti-hillary, they’re pro-facts. It just so happens that the people I’m responding to at the moment are people who are supporting hillary using false claims. If the sanders people make false claims, I’ll call them on it, too.
You know how I know so much about American politics? A combination of having watched The West Wing (and loved it), being big on politics in general, and knowing how to learn things on any topic. Check out my Disqus profile – unlike certain people here, I haven’t hidden it. Have a look at my comment history.
I’m not exactly sure how you think talking to two or three Australians, and looking at “Australian Internet” for “Medical research study” makes you an expert on Australian-ness. But here’s something you might notice, if you look back at all of my posts – I don’t use Americanisms.
jybarz March 27th, 2016 at 13:47
They must be referring to the establishment DNC inside job mandate :-) :-) :-)
There’s no such BS mandate.
It’s a known fact that superdelegates can change their support in the end for the candidate who eventually gets the most popular votes. OBAMA in 2008 received large amount of superdelegates who changed from Clinton to him in the end.
robert March 27th, 2016 at 11:39
it doesn’t hurt bernie to ask and im sure they will have a 2nd chance on election day
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 14:12
Do what we say or we will WHINE again.
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 15:58
If YOU can’t handle criticism of Bernie then DON’T be a moderator…now you behave just like Huff Po…..I leave my politics at the door when I moderate.,..so should you
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 16:00
Tell alan about your bias…rest assured the rest of us you deleted will
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 10:37
After the next few contests, this will just seem silly.
The Original Just Me March 27th, 2016 at 11:16
The competition is good for the Hilary supporters to keep them on their toes but it does make one nervous.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 11:23
These three caucuses were expected to go his way for a long time. I’ve been paying attention to others that were predicted to be his that are coming up, not going his way anymore. After NY and PA, he should wind down. But he won’t. His followers will become even angrier and he is feeding off of that.
The Original Just Me March 27th, 2016 at 11:48
The states that Sanders is winning are states that have very active Republican Parties who are trying to change that state into a solid Red State. His support is being bolstered by cross over voters because the Republicans want to defeat Hilary before they have to face her in the main election. NY. Penn. and Cal. are the main tip over states for Hilary. She will win the primaries but not without a solid strategy. The Republicans are definitely doing Their Brand of Politics.
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 12:46
[citation required]
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 12:43
Alaska doesn’t report vote counts, it reports SCDs (State Convention Delegates). Similar to Nevada, Maine, and Washington (you didn’t actually think Washington only had 27,000 votes, despite having a population about half that of Illinois, which saw nearly 2 million votes, did you? To put it another way, Washington has a bigger population than Missouri, and Missouri saw 600,000 votes).
Indeed, reports suggest Alaska saw “record turnout” for the caucus. The Anchorage caucus alone saw over 5000 people: http://www.ktva.com/alaska-democrats-choose-sanders-in-caucus-record-turnout-reported-997/
Seriously, why are the Clinton supporters so unaware of how the Democratic primary system works in each state, prior to making bold statements to dismiss Sanders supporters? I’m an Australian, and it took me all of two minutes to find this information.
EDIT: Took about 20 extra seconds after I posted the above to find this:
http://www.ktuu.com/news/news/photos-democrats-flood-west-anchorage-high-school-saturday-for-caucus/38709442
Alaska saw more than 10,600 votes in the Democratic caucus. Not 400.
mea_mark March 27th, 2016 at 13:02
They don’t want to know.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 13:41
Because it doesn’t matter anyway.
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 14:02
Facts don’t matter. Gotcha.
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 16:09
math matters and it is factual, bernie is losing
mea_mark March 27th, 2016 at 15:35
mistlesuede • 2 hours ago
“Because it doesn’t matter anyway.”
You make my point for me, thank you.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 15:55
What point did you make? That caucus makes not a dime’s worth of difference to this election. I am paying attention to what matters.
Go up-vote your foreign friend and leave me the heck alone.
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 16:03
Take you bias elsewhere…like Salon
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 16:08
who is they, are they “yhose” people or the others that you tend to insult and dismiss?
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 13:37
You seem anal.
I didn’t pay much attention, turned the “news” on this morning and saw numbers at the bottom of the screen. I also didn’t give two sh*ts, so I don’t spend time worrying about it. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t matter at all.
The Original Just Me March 27th, 2016 at 11:13
Trying to steal delegates. Hummmm, Is Bernie desperate enough to go over the Republican style Campaigning ? I guess all of the crossover voters he is getting are teaching him the ways of the Republicans. NOW, let’s just wait until after the Convention and see where a huge lot of Bernie supporters go ? Maybe back home to their Retardican Party of Skulduggery ?
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 12:35
Do you not know how the nomination system works?
He’s not “trying to steal delegates”. He’s trying to win over *superdelegates*. These are party insiders (like governors, senators, etc) who get a vote at the nominating convention. A heap of them have stated that they support Clinton. Sanders is hoping to convince some of them to change their minds. The pledged delegates are locked in – with only two candidates, it’s practically guaranteed that the nomination convention will be short-and-sweet, it won’t go to a second ballot.
Right now, as the article points out, 469 superdelegates have stated that they’ll vote for Clinton. These aren’t locked in, though – superdelegates are free to vote for whoever they want, and aren’t bound by the popular vote in their state.
And hey, Sanders won three caucuses on Saturday, with his best performance being during a closed caucus, so clearly all his support must be coming from crossover republicans, right? And the same had to happen in Maine, Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado, and New Hampshire, all of which have closed or semi-closed caucuses/primaries, and all of which went strongly in favour of Sanders… right? The left-wing guy can’t possibly be energising the left-wing base of the Democratic party, right?
It’s actually really curious – on these boards, the Sanders supporters are polite and positive, while it’s the Clinton supporters that seem to be hostile and offensive. Completely the opposite of what those same Clinton supporters assert is happening (as far as I can tell, it’s based entirely on one single instance, or maybe two instances – I can’t tell if the resurgence of the story in mid-February is just a repeat of the claims from the early-February story, or if it’s a new case).
robert March 27th, 2016 at 12:56
your right about the clinton voter insults at sanders but depending on the state You might have to register as a dem or gop ( in my opinion thats unconstitutional ) during the caucuses causing some unable to change your vote when the election arrives. Thats part of the reason why i think super delegates should be abolished along with mandatory party affiliation/registration requirements
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 14:10
so you want anyone to be able to vote for anyone in an election so trump fans can nominate the Dem candidates…damn you have a YUUGGEE ego
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 14:15
For someone who thinks I’m not worth the time, you’re really going all out responding to all of my posts… with nothing but namecalling.
Incidentally, I didn’t say anything about what you’re talking about – perhaps you have me confused with the guy who replied to me. I’m the one who said that the superdelegate system exists for a reason, and hasn’t once suggested that closed primaries/caucuses are a problem.
What I did say was that people like you (let me be clear, I don’t mean “hillary supporters”, I mean ignorant, rude people who are more interested in beating down everyone that disagrees with them than actually understanding others) clearly don’t understand how your system works. And I stand by it.
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 14:16
Let me be clear…your trolling is sad.
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 14:20
Who’s the troll, here? The guy who brings out facts, or the woman who replies to every single post with insults while never once actually making an on-topic comment?
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 14:26
not ever post, mainly your long winded rants. now rein in that huge ego and ask mom to make you some lunch.
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 14:39
Trolls don’t post “long winded rants” full of actual facts. They make emotionally charged, insult-filled short messages intended to get a rise out of people. You know, like accusing those they disagree with of being “whiners”. Or asserting that all Sanders supporters are really stealth Republicans (even though Republicans would prefer going up against Clinton because she’s a known quantity – better the devil you know, as they say), as one of the others in your little troupe did (note: I use that phrase purely for rhetorical purposes – I don’t know whether there’s any collaboration between you and TOJM).
And if you don’t like people constructing full paragraphs, then I pity you. Intelligent people tend to be a bit long-winded. Obama, Clinton, and Sanders are all incredibly long-winded. And they all insert facts into what they have to say. They don’t just get up on those podiums and go “Donald Trump is a whiner and a loser, vote for me”.
Now, do you have something on-topic to say? Something relevant to the topic of super delegates, rather than attacks on me? If not, I suggest you stop replying. If I’m a troll, you shouldn’t ‘feed me’. And if I’m right and you don’t want to admit it, you should avoid the topic entirely. Attacking me constantly just makes you look ignorant, rude, and childish.
bloggo March 27th, 2016 at 16:17
Wow. Oh the irony.
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 11:21
on the count of 3 all Bernie supporters WHINE
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 11:28
It gets louder all the time.
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 11:43
Annoying brats..
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 11:47
:)
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 14:08
That one is a berniebot who will have jz and mark running to upvote him.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 14:10
His biggest fans! :)
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 14:10
His only fans
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 12:49
You guys are both childish and ignorant. I can’t say it any other way. You’re showing complete lack of knowledge of how the nomination process works, and who “super delegates” are. You’re being highly offensive to all people who disagree with you, and calling people names like you’re two year olds.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 13:45
Would you care for some cheese with your whiiiiiiiine?
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 13:57
Seriously, you’re being incredibly childish. And considering the entirely generic, overused, standard insults you’re choosing, you’re not even being original with it. If you can’t actually bring facts, then at least try to get creative with your insults.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 14:03
You must have me confused with someone who would care what you think.
Go start an argument with someone else.
LOL
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 14:05
I don’t have you confused at all. I know you don’t care what I think. And I also know that you don’t care about facts, or politeness, or honesty. If you did, you’d admit to being wrong.
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 14:08
I know you do not care about facts, all you care about is your long winded whines.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 14:20
My last response to your baiting, which will prove you are a liar along with your other “attributes.” Just because you ignore comments, it’s not my problem.
40 minutes ago I replied:
You seem anal.
I didn’t pay much attention, turned the “news” on this morning and saw numbers at the bottom of the screen and changed the channel to music. I also didn’t give two sh*ts, so I don’t spend time worrying about it like you do. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t matter at all.
• Edit• Reply•Share ›
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 14:22
A “liar” about what, exactly? What have I lied about? You didn’t admit to being wrong, you said that you didn’t pay much attention.
Try this: “I was wrong”. It’s that simple. Three little words. Instead, you dismissed my correction as irrelevant.
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 14:05
Back again playing god and insulting everyone
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 14:09
Whiney McWhinerson has nothing better to do than stick his large nose in an American election and try to start arguments with us.
How pathetic is that?
I’m sure Sanders will benefit from the Australian vote. LOL
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 14:10
Oh the hypocrisy.
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 13:47
Go whine some where else…juvenile delinquent.. from the very beginning you clowns have been RUDE and OBNOXIOUS ….then you have the nerve to ask for my support..your whining wears but bernie isn’t much of a role model…he whines all the time too..go away little boy
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 13:55
Ah, the irony.
Here’s something to think about – I’m Australian, I’m 32 years old, I have a PhD in mathematics, and I haven’t yet made any sort of generalised comment about Clinton supporters. I have also pointed out a few times that I don’t consider myself a “Sanders supporter”, either. I do think he’s the best candidate, but I don’t have a problem with Clinton, either.
You can throw insults instead of engaging in facts and real debate all you want, but the truth of the matter is, you’re the one who is being rude and obnoxious here, not me. You’re also the one who is spending your time whining. Food for thought.
Notice, by the way, that I speak specifically of you and, by my count, three other commenters on this site. I don’t try to assert that every single Clinton supporter is as childish as you. And I certainly don’t go around namecalling.
You think I’m wrong on any point? Bring the evidence. Not name calling, not whining about how Sanders supporters are “always whining”, but actual, solid facts.
Until you do so, I’m going to put you, and those three other specific people, in the exact same category as Trump, who seems to spend an inordinate amount of time complaining about other people for things that he himself is guilty of.
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 14:07
you are a long winded big mouth, nothing more
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 14:10
I gave you a challenge, not that long ago, to actually counter a single one of my arguments. You have yet to do so. You finally pop your head into this discussion, and rather than making an attempt at providing a real argument, you resort to namecalling again.
You’re making a fool of yourself.
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 14:06
stfu you long winded big mouth.
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 14:09
I didn’t realise that three sentences makes a person “long winded”.
Gina Bousquet March 27th, 2016 at 13:56
“He’s out there. He fights from the heart. This is who Bernie is. He has put the right issues on the table both for the Democratic Party and for the country in general, so I’m still cheering Bernie on.”
Elisabeth Warren
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 14:18
it is always such fun to see foreigners tell Americans who we should vote for while their countries are rioting or enacting discriminatory laws
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 14:24
I have to ask – are you referring to me? Because if you are, then you know less about the world outside America than you do America.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 14:25
It is pretty awful to see a foreigner who has nothing better to do than troll websites for someone they will never vote for.
To quote Drumpf, “he’s a loser.”
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 14:25
Not just him.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 15:34
They will take whatever backup they can get.
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 15:35
and they do whine…”you are mean to us”
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 15:39
I was having a perfectly nice time reading and commenting until the troll started writing books at me of which I had no interest. ;)
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 15:46
He did that to me the other night…said I was a meanie.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 15:49
I thought he was a newbie today! Let me guess. It was on another thread regarding Sanders?
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 15:53
Yep, he shows up everso often,makes his proclimations about how smart he is…whines then comes back.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 15:56
Oh. One of those.
TKList March 27th, 2016 at 14:23
Abolish state and national political party conventions. Use the popular vote.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 15:31
Then let’s retroactively elect President Gore.
Mensa Member March 27th, 2016 at 15:37
I’m no political scientist but every country I’ve lived in had political parties, so they must be needed.
Even so, I would like to see the vote for president be a straight vote. I don’t see any use for the electoral college.
mea_mark March 27th, 2016 at 15:38
Just curious, are you familiar with ‘ranked voting’?
Mensa Member March 27th, 2016 at 15:49
mea,
Isn’t that also called “instant runoff” — so, if your first choice doesn’t win, they count your second choice?
It’s an interesting idea but I’m not aware of a country which does it. Are you?
mea_mark March 27th, 2016 at 16:00
Something like that. There are a variety of ways it can be done. info here … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_voting_system I think when election reform does come to America, we need to incorporate some of the ideas of ranked voting into our system. Our system as it stands now, really doesn’t work as well it can. It really is getting out of date, it’s time for change.
Mensa Member March 27th, 2016 at 16:25
Wow, election reform. I’ve been wanting that for decades but have almost given up hope.
For me, money, gerrymandering and voter suppression are the most urgent issues.
But, thanks to the activist conservative Justices, money and voter suppression are a constitutional right, now.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 16:49
Agreed.
Glen March 29th, 2016 at 03:37
We in Australia generally call it “preferential voting”, we have it, and it works quite well for us.
Here’s how it works here – you number the candidates in order of preference. If someone gets a majority of “first preference” votes (that is, ranked “1”), they win. Otherwise, the candidate who gets the lowest “first preference” votes (that is, ranked “1”) is removed, those who voted for that candidate have their votes moved to their second preference, and the count is re-done. This is repeated, with the candidate with the lowest number of votes at any particular point being removed until someone gets a majority.
As an extreme example (because usually one of the two leading candidates on first preferences ends up winning), there was an election in 1984 where, in the seat of Murrumbidgee (for those who are curious, it’s a word in an aboriginal language), there were four candidates – a Labor (main left-wing) candidate, a Nationals (secondary right-wing, rural-focused) candidate, a Liberal (main right-wing) candidate, and an Independent candidate.
The Labor candidate got nearly 38% of the first preference vote, the Independent got about 27%, the Nationals candidate got just over 25%, and the Liberal got just over 9%.
The Liberal was removed, and those who voted for them had their votes distributed to their second preferences. Most of this would have flowed to the National candidate, which meant that, after the first redistribution, the National candidate had more votes than the Independent. But nobody had a majority.
So the Independent, now with the fewest votes, was removed, and it came down to Labor vs National. On preferences, the National candidate ended up with 51.5% of the vote on the “two candidate preferred”.
Generally, the “two candidate preferred” stage gets reported no matter how early in the process we know the result – they keep going until there are only two candidates remaining, to see how strong the support ended up being.
What that means is that, for instance, the Greens can run a candidate in every single electorate, and not spoil the chances for the Labor candidates. And relatively recently, the Greens actually got a seat in our House of Representatives.
We use the same system in the Senate, but it’s a lot more complex, because each state elects 6 senators at each election, so there’s a whole “quota” system on top of preferences.
But yeah, America needs to consider using our system. It’s so much better, because it means that we don’t have a two-party system. There are two dominant parties, but often they have to form coalitions (to the point that two parties, the Liberals and the Nationals, have an ongoing “coalition” deal that has lasted so long, most people just call them “The Coalition”).
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 15:40
There is always a lot of discussion about changing the electoral system every four years. And then it’s forgotten until the next time.
amongoose March 27th, 2016 at 18:16
Y’all sure can derail a thread. :-)
It was a compromise to get the smaller states to agree to constitution.
The electoral college was as well as the senate were set up the way they were to give each state more representation in elections to compensate for their low populations, and in the legislative branch to smaller states.as it provided a check on majority rule.
http://www.dcte.udel.edu/hlp/resources/newnation/pdfs/PopEstim.pdf
TKList March 27th, 2016 at 15:52
I am talking about primaries, not the general election.
jybarz March 27th, 2016 at 14:43
WTF Is wrong with the few Hillary supporters here? Constantly calling Bernie supporters whiners and Berniebots. if you guys can’t handle the truths about Hillary then you’re as good as the Repukes in handling truths.
Glen here has been getting a barrage of insults, name calling and attacks from Hillary supporters for explaining how the primary voting and caucus work, and citing his sources of information to validate his analyses.
He’s been saying many times that he has no preference between Hillary and Bernie, and that he is just simply being objective with his no-nonsense assessment based on his sources of information. The guy says he has a PhD in Math and obviously has a natural interest with the presidential primary math. But some people here don’t like his assessment because it doesn’t favor Hillary, he gets clobbered and derided.
So, WTF?
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 14:47
Minor correction – I do have a preference, but I don’t view this as a zero-sum game. I can hope for a Sanders win but be happy with Clinton as well. I don’t factor my preference into my analysis, that’s all.
DogsRgoodpeople March 27th, 2016 at 15:15
Agree
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 15:31
He can’t vote for either, so why do you care?
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 15:34
wah! now you upvote trolls and whine that people are being mean to them/him.We read it on the internet so it must be true about glen.
Mensa Member March 27th, 2016 at 15:35
I’m a Hillary supporter and I never do that.
Don’t generalize it to us all.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 15:37
You have to wonder why someone would believe everything he reads from someone who came here to troll and who has no impact whatsoever on our election.
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 15:41
Excuse me, but I said there were FOUR hillary supporters that were a problem, here. Mensa isn’t one of them.
I took jybarz’s comment to refer to the four that were here, in this discussion at this time, not those who frequent the site.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 15:42
You seriously need to get a life, in your own country.
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 15:44
he assumes only bernie fans are frequent posters, another ASSumtion from him.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 15:48
Lots of ASSumptions going on. Hehe.
Mensa Member March 27th, 2016 at 15:42
I think I’m a pretty typical Democrat — I prefer one candidate but will happily vote for the other.
I would be very unhappy if “super delegates” swung the nomination. I suppose they could be helpful as a safeguard against some truly disastrous candidate but Bernie isn’t that at all.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 15:46
I’ve always said I’ll vote for either. I think the system is working as it always does. The next few contests will show that. The supers will vote accordingly. I’m sure some may switch at some point, but not enough to swing the nomination. Bernie’s supporters have short memories. It is similar to the primary in 2008.
Mensa Member March 27th, 2016 at 15:52
I’m a Hillary supporter with a short memory. What happened in 2008?
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 16:03
Fighting about the super delegates. Whining about something called PUMA’s on Hillary’s side, so on and so forth. I never saw a lot of it, but all the whining was there then too. I was supporting PO.
Mensa Member March 27th, 2016 at 16:19
Oh, yeah! The PUMAs!
They were not what I was hoping they would be ;-)
It was this exact issue, right? They thought the super delegates were unfairly supporting Obama, I think,
That ended up being a big-fat non-issue.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 16:48
Exactly.
jybarz March 27th, 2016 at 22:19
I said FEW.
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 16:40
except he said he is a bernie fan .
Glen March 29th, 2016 at 03:09
Actually, I made absolutely clear that I don’t consider myself a “bernie fan”. I said I think Sanders is the better choice, but I have absolutely no problem with Clinton either. Which is why you’ll find no criticism of Clinton in any of my comments. And why I haven’t once criticised Clinton fans in general. I simply find that, where Clinton and Sanders differ in their political/policy views, I tend to find Sanders’ position the one I support more.
If I were to call myself a fan of any American politician, it would be Elizabeth Warren. She’s exceptional, and in a perfect world, she’d be your next president. I understand why she doesn’t want it, though. Notice, by the way, that Warren has a very similar sentiment to me, too – she’s cheering Sanders on, but won’t actually endorse either candidate. Would you call Elizabeth Warren a “berniebro”?
jybarz March 27th, 2016 at 14:53
No problem at all if one is attacking Repukes and conservatives, but when the same person says something negative about Hillary, that person is instantly called a troll.
Gina Bousquet March 27th, 2016 at 14:55
No need to say anything negative about Hillary, suffice to say anything good about Bernie. How can Alan.com be “the best from the left” if talking about Bernie is not accepted but as trolling or whining?
DogsRgoodpeople March 27th, 2016 at 15:11
Agree 100 %
Gina Bousquet March 27th, 2016 at 15:20
:)
Mensa Member March 27th, 2016 at 16:27
>> if talking about Bernie is not accepted but as trolling or whining?
Talk all you want!
It’s the bickering I dislike.
Gina Bousquet March 27th, 2016 at 16:37
Me too.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 15:29
Perhaps you should read more than one thread on this website and not spew skewed views. The person who started attacking people on the thread is not even American.
Hillary supporters do not go looking for arguments as is plain to see here for thinking folks who can read.
Here’s an example of just one of many threads where when trolls don’t show up, things go well.
http://www.alan.com/2016/03/26/15000-show-up-to-see-bernie-in-seattle/
Mensa Member March 27th, 2016 at 15:32
>> when the same person says something negative about Hillary, that person is instantly called a troll.
That’s partly because some are trolls. They are conservatives wanting to divide Democrats. They did it in 2008 between Hillary and Barrack supporters and now they are doing it again.
There are legitimate criticisms of both Bernie and Hillary but if you do criticize them, do so like a true liberal: with facts, logic and fairness.
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 15:39
If only that were true. I haven’t said a word against Clinton. I’m their prime target at the moment, for using facts and logic, and being fair. I don’t deny that I’d prefer Sanders, but I’ve said multiple times in the past that Democrats need to stop sniping at each other. Take a page out of Elizabeth Warren’s book.
OK, this time I really mean it – I need sleep.
Mensa Member March 27th, 2016 at 15:45
Goodnight.
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 15:54
If you are going to remove my comments then get rid of Glen’s too…to be fair and balanced
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 15:58
Real nice. How many?
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 15:58
I had 2 deleted…I wonder who did that
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 15:59
I’m sure Alan would like to know.
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 15:59
Good idea
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 15:58
3 its probably mea mark..he is a St Bernard
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 16:00
One should not be a moderator if they do not apply all the rules fairly. There has been no swearing or strong personal attacks on this thread. I’ve seen the entire thing throughout the day.
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 16:01
That is what I just told him
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 16:03
well mark did tell us we have no morals because we prefer Hillary.
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 16:04
His idea of fair and balanced…you leave your politics at the door when you mod
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 16:18
Go to blank slate..just under the main header stories and bitch …I did and told them that I expect mark to try and ban us
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 15:58
seems “someone” is protecting glen the bernie fan and deleting my posts as well.
rg9rts March 27th, 2016 at 16:17
I went to blank slate and bitched…I suggest that you do too…its at the bottom of the intro stories
Carla Akins March 27th, 2016 at 18:53
You have mail.
Carla Akins March 27th, 2016 at 18:43
In the 11 posts that Glen made, all were well written, concise, incredibly civil and he numerous attempts to discuss the issue in a civil tone. There is no reason to delete his comments.
Carla Akins March 27th, 2016 at 16:11
I’ve reviewed all comments on this page, including the deleted ones. The few that were deleted were all immature insults and offered nothing of value to the discussion. You folks may not like Glen’s comments, Mark’s moderating or their political choices but that’s too bad. All of you regulars get preferential treatment on this site, along with Colmesfeed and FON. No one’s comments were removed because they differed from the moderators political leanings but because they were hateful and sophomoric. Feel free to contact Alan but there was no abuse here and at least three of you owe both Mark and Glen an apology. We lean left, we’re supposed to be taking the higher road and this thread is not attractive.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 16:18
I didn’t have any removed, so I guess I should feel honored. I know moderation is a hard job Carla, but there is more going on here than what you are saying.
As Gina said, this is supposed to be Liberaland and yes we are supposed to take the high road compared to the right. As long as no one is talking about someone’s penis size, I think we are doing pretty good.
It would be nice to have moderation that does not take sides and make snide remarks to people who are commenting. I don’t think that is asking for much.
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 16:32
We do have low or no morals,according to mark.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 16:41
He has looked down his nose at me today just as many other days. I’ve tried to talk with him in the past as an equal and have gone out of my way to be polite. He is very unprofessional and it’s quite disappointing.
Carla Akins March 27th, 2016 at 18:44
Please, I’d like to see some documentation of this comment that Mark made stating you have low or no morals.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 19:05
It did not happen today. This is what I was talking about earlier. The arrogant comments he has made in general towards anyone who has said they support HRC is the problem. This did indeed happen a while ago, trust me. We were both offended.
mea_mark March 27th, 2016 at 19:07
Like the Bernie supporters aren’t constantly being offended by ya’lls comments? Give me a break, you’re just projecting your faults.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 19:11
Go away.
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 20:07
Mark said people who vote hillary have low to no morals…. Mistlesuede called him out and he said…take it how you will.
mea_mark March 27th, 2016 at 20:10
Edit and paste without context … so you can read into it what you want. Let’s totally ignore convictions … because, well because.
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 20:26
I did not paste anything.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 20:31
You’re right. You edited it to make more sense. Your recollection is perfect of what was said.
clemans March 28th, 2016 at 14:40
well, anybody saying that is wrong and short-sighted!
A vote for anybody except the democratic nominee is a vote to close more Planned Parenthoods, a vote to further dishonor the Supreme Court for maybe another 40 yrs or so, more harm to the environment, less investment in education, more corruption, lower wages, more welfare to defense contractors and a whole bunch of other things.
It is my bet that IF Bernie doesn’t get the nomination, he is going to throw his support for Hillary because he will support the best option after himself, for the nation. Even Lincoln, facing death threats, tried to unite the two sides, pointing out the nation belongs to all of us and we need to work together.
I donate to Bernie, but if Hillary wins I am still going to vote for her.
mistlesuede March 28th, 2016 at 14:50
I’ve said for months I will vote for either. That never seems to matter when some Sanders supporters here get on one of their tears against Hillary.
He also told me that if I vote for HRC and she loses it is MY fault that we get President Trump. Ugh. That is awful to write. But anyway, he says outright that he will not vote for Hillary. He will vote green party.
Talk about ignorant comments. I have always been very polite when speaking to him in the past even when he says moronic things.
Whatever. He does not exist in my mind at this point and neither does the supposedly Australian commenting annoyance trolling one who followed Tracey to do more to some of us.
mea_mark March 28th, 2016 at 16:18
Nope, my vote is going to the green party candidate, Jill Stein.
clemans March 28th, 2016 at 16:24
it is your vote to do with as you think best. As long as you can live with the consequences and that you know what you are doing. Millions of people’s lives depend on our votes.
Carla Akins March 27th, 2016 at 17:01
I found no snide comments made by any mods on the 114 comments I reviewed. It is a Liberal site, but that doesn’t mean that conservative cannot comment or debate an issue or candidate. We only require the comments be civil, apply to the topic, and do NOT insult any readers – even those whose opinion disagrees.
Mark offered a link to explain the Superdelegates, and followed with feel the bern as he is a Sanders supporter but there is nothing snide in that comment. He only offered a third party site to clarify the process. All mods on Alan’s sites and FON do so as a volunteer because they feel it’s important to drive the direction of the conversation in a positive and beneficial manner – not devolve into an insult-fest. We have real days jobs, spouses, children, grandchildren and like everyone else a life. We should be able to trust the regulars to remember they are adults when we aren’t looking as well as when we are. Depending on which site, and what day and time there can be none to seven mods reviewing the site at any given time, there is little that multiple mods and site owners don’t see.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 17:11
I’ll just leave it that you have no idea what I’m talking about.
With Mark it’s been an ongoing problem and in addition he has looked down his nose at me since I came here. He is unprofessional and I ignore him. I wish he’d do the same with me.
DogsRgoodpeople March 27th, 2016 at 18:56
He should be professional like you eh ?
mistlesuede DogsRgoodpeople • 5 days ago
F*ck off wimp. Grow a brain and watch the adults do the job.
http://www.alan.com/2016/03/22/cole-hillary-goes-full-neocon-at-aipac/
you are really something else. anyone that likes bernie is a troll or a GOP’r trying to fool everyone.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 19:04
Why are you trying to start problems now? You have just proven the point for me. It’s Sanders supporters who are arrogant and you know what? Put the entire conversation up instead of just picking what you want to display?
That was my response to you telling me that “I SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO VOTE!
F*ck off again troublemaker.
mea_mark March 27th, 2016 at 19:05
Welcome to the club.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 19:10
Now that the mods are going to start removing any comments that go against Sanders supporters, I’ll leave you with this.
Your comment:
DogsRgoodpeople mistlesuede • 5 days ago
I think it would be better for America if voters demanded candidates with integrity and not promote suck ups that “say what they want to hear”. Hence I ask that you voluntarily forfeit your right to vote , since you have no integrity, how will you recognize it in another ?
No more response is needed. You proved the point that Sanders supporters are arrogant and rude, but can’t handle any responses.
Thanks for that.
Go ahead and remove this now Mark.
mea_mark March 27th, 2016 at 19:45
Do you want to be banned? I really don’t understand what your problem is with trying to be civil. Yeah, sometimes people overreact a little. What is happening here is not a little and is creating a lot of unnecessary work. I did not want to spend Easter babysitting. FYI I have asked Alan to look into things.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 19:49
Good! That’s what I would want also. I’ve been nothing but civil to you at all times. And when someone comes here with a copied and pasted reply from me, but does not include the entire comment that came before it, I should be allowed to respond to it without having it removed. Whatever, it doesn’t matter. I’m just sorry to see this website becoming like all the rest out there.
Now, leave me alone.
mea_mark March 27th, 2016 at 19:59
The best way to be left alone, is to go somewhere else. just sayin …
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 20:20
Baiting again? This is the lack of professionalism I am talking about.
I can’t say it any more ways.
LEAVE ME ALONE.
Buh bye.
clemans March 28th, 2016 at 14:59
I am not sure I understand why a moderator is even talking or voicing opinions in the first place. I would think that the role of moderator is to do just that. But I admit I don’t go to many sites. I have only been here 3 times that I remember.
But the best way to not escalate a problem is to stop trying to feed the flames. I found this link, I hope it helps. A good moderator needs these skills, probably others as well. Good luck. I have heard nice things about this site.
http://recoveringengineer.com/resolving-conflict/five-ways-to-de-escalate-a-conflict/
clemans March 28th, 2016 at 15:01
I don’t blame you for not wanting to babysit though. In a perfect world, there would be no need to have moderators….
DogsRgoodpeople March 27th, 2016 at 20:13
i did link to the article including all comments, including mine. i believe there is a lapse of intellectual integrity in your comments there. possibly due to your intense desire to see hillary as the first woman president .
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 20:18
No one reads the link. They read what you copied and pasted for the comment. That’s okay, my second comment showed what you said and I made my point.
I don’t care what you believe about anything.
I am BEGGING you and Mark to stop bothering me. If you both have any “intellectual integrity” you will do so.
Buh bye.
tracey marie March 27th, 2016 at 20:29
That was insulting, not civil.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 20:30
Exactly. I’m being baited for bad responses.
clemans March 28th, 2016 at 01:21
I read some comments made about this site on another chat room and followed you hear to see what was happening. I have had a lot of experiences with trolls on a couple of sites that I have been on a lot. And there have been times when trolls have tried to bait me into long run ons. I have different ways of dealing with them. IF I am bored I might play along, but what I like to do best is use their posts to get out liberal ideas or facts. I don’t ask them to post, don’t write their script for them, but if I can use it for a liberal cause, I am not going to pass up the chance.
Another option, is to exercise self-control and don’t read posts by people who are offense. That is really so simple and yet often the very last thing someone thinks about. Trolls want to cause upset…..I try really hard not to give them what they are sometimes paid to do. My advice is run your own life and don’t give personal power away, especially to a troll. Don’t be their puppet and let them pull your strings. They don’t like it when they can’t crank people up and become the center of attention.
I hope this helps people having a hard time with trolls, it at least has helped me. I just mostly can’t take trolls seriously. Their scripts are poorly written, their intentions are too obvious, and they lack originality. . Good luck
mistlesuede March 28th, 2016 at 09:37
Was being baited by moderator and another one who is a regular here. I’ve told them both to stay away from me. They are hypocrites.
clemans March 28th, 2016 at 14:29
I don’t know about the site. I haven’t been on a site where a moderator actually talks tot he people posting so I have no experience here. I only thought that you seem to like this site so much and have said good things about it if I remember correctly.
My spouse has said that I am a brat. Sometimes he is right. If I know or suspect someone is trying to bait me into an argument, I am bound and determined not to give them what they want. That is how I feel about trolls too.
Not interested means, not replying or reading their post to begin with. Sometimes simple really works. You know that saying that it takes two to tango….just stop the dance. My advice it never let anybody take your power away. Don’t let anybody else pull your chain. But maybe that is why my husband calls me a brat. smiles
Are there other sites to consider where this doesn’t happen? You can always hang out at the friendly place where everybody loves you!
mistlesuede March 28th, 2016 at 14:42
I frequent a few where moderators talk on the thread. It is fine under most circumstances. I’ve never seen this baiting behavior before. Otherwise it is a great site. Very nice people except for that few who can’t accept reality at times and who feel the need to say unnecessary or stupid things. I have a lot of fun with most of the people here, so I am not concerned about the few that are ignorant.
I normally ignore troll-types. If they are saying horrible things to people, I flag them. The moderators normally clean that stuff up really fast here, which is a plus. Some sites that I follow friends to are cesspools. I don’t usually stay long because that is where troll-types like to latch onto people and harass them. I avoid that stuff like the plague that it is.
You can’t be a brat! You are too nice and thoughtful. :)
clemans March 28th, 2016 at 14:52
well, I wouldn’t admit it to HIM, but there are times when I don’t like myself…….but I am fiercely protective of my “adopted family at M.P.”. And I hate to see anyone upset. This seems like too much stress.
I don’t feel that a moderator voicing opinions makes for a good moderator to begin with. Mostly I am a polite, civil person, and try to get along with everybody, but I don’t have trouble with trolls……I had too many teenage daughters…..by age 12 they could argue an issue better than any troll I have seen in over four years, and make more sense too. Some mornings I wanted to be a mother guppy that could eat her young, but I survived it. And it taught me great skills……here is a hint, if someone doesn’t have teenagers, I don’t recommend getting any….there are better ways to learn skills. SMILES
mistlesuede March 28th, 2016 at 15:08
LMBO! I agree with you on the moderation.
Still laughing about the mother guppy and teenagers.
Thanks for caring. :) It means a lot.
clemans March 28th, 2016 at 15:30
yes, sure laugh…..if you had been there you would still be crying like me. SMILES!
mistlesuede March 28th, 2016 at 15:35
Hehehe!
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 22:29
And it’s being edited to change the meaning. Just noticed it.
How pathetic.
Alan March 27th, 2016 at 20:26
Saying someone has no integrity is a personal attack. And making broad comments about Sanders supporters is insulting. Our mods don’t remove post based on content. Now let’s all hug it out and move on.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 20:29
I just replied to you. It could be the same reply here. I’m not the one who said it, I was repeating what was said to me. I have never said that to ANYONE before.
Alan March 27th, 2016 at 20:31
No need to sink to that level, even it it was said to you. I’m washing this joint out with soap tonight.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 20:32
We’re going to wash this site right out of our hair! :)
Alan March 27th, 2016 at 20:12
To both of you…telling someone to f-off is not acceptable here. If you want to talk in that manner, please do it elsewhere, but not here. Furthermore saying anyone that likes Bernie is a troll is not the kind of dialogue we will continue to have on this site.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 20:27
Please read the comments below this.
I agree with you, but when being baited and insulted, you can expect people are going to react negatively.
Overall, this is a wonderful site. But there are some real problems too.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 20:33
Agreed. When baited, I will keep my tongue in check. ;)
Alan March 27th, 2016 at 20:35
Thank you!
Mensa Member March 27th, 2016 at 16:29
I hardly get any comments deleted — mostly when I call “Richard” Cheney by his common name.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 16:42
LOL. I’ve heard that is a problem. :)
Carla Akins March 27th, 2016 at 16:48
Those aren’t deleted, just held up in moderation due to Richard’s common nickname. In those cases, someone has to physically review the comment, make sure it’s in contact with the thread and then approve it. Sometimes that can take a while if it happens at night. I’m in the central time zone and get up before 3 am, so they usually sit until then unless one of the other mods was just up late.
Glen March 27th, 2016 at 22:02
I just wanted to say, if anything I said at all went too far, even if only momentary, I apologise unreservedly. I know how frustrating it can be dealing with a blowup in a discussion forum – I had to deal with one on a forum I moderated about 8 years ago.
mea_mark March 28th, 2016 at 09:45
You are ok and welcome here.
oldfart March 28th, 2016 at 11:27
Your commenting was spot on and your perseverance under undue and (IMO) misguided interrogation was most impressive. I hope that you will continue commenting here despite the poor reception you received. I for one, welcome and appreciate non-US citizen views and commentary here.
oldfart March 28th, 2016 at 11:30
Sorry folks my bad. I cant seem to fix it.
Hirightnow March 28th, 2016 at 11:40
Hover your pointer over the upper right quadrant of your comment and you’ll see a triangle; click it and you should get a “delete comment” option.
oldfart March 28th, 2016 at 11:43
Thanks…I hate it when that happens.
oldfart March 28th, 2016 at 11:30
Your commenting was spot on and your perseverance under undue and (IMO) misguided interrogation was most impressive. I hope that you will continue commenting here despite the poor reception you received. I for one, welcome and appreciate non-US citizen views and commentary here.
Carla Akins March 28th, 2016 at 15:56
Thank you Glen, that’s very kind but you have nothing to apologize for. Your posts are are well written, informative and allow for further discussion.
Hirightnow March 28th, 2016 at 06:40
Here I was, thinking I could ignore politics on a Easter Sunday, and get some sleep/Bad Movie time in, and I go and miss all of this.
Maybe I’ve been too lenient…
Mensa Member March 27th, 2016 at 16:14
Here is how I see this primary breaking down:
idealism vs. pragmatist
For an old school liberal, like me, Sanders says all the right stuff.
But, I can’t imagine him getting any of his big ideas passed. Not with the Republican party who would rather burn the country down than give even a mild tax increase for the rich. (Let alone shut down the health insurance companies!)
Hillary, on the other hand, seems like the safe choice. For starters, I think she can win. I’m not sure America is ready for a self-proclaimed socialist (even though they love the kind of socialism he supports.)
Yes, Hillary is too hawkish for me. Yes, she’s corporate. But she knows how to take names and kick butt in a way that not even Obama does. She certainly knows how to survive a political attack.
Considering the hostile and obstructionist GOP America is saddled with, I’m not too optimistic about idealism. I’m inclined to vote pragmatic.
arc99 March 27th, 2016 at 16:36
I have been offline a lot the past few days and have not reviewed the various comments on this article. So I won’t even begin to offer my opinion on who is right and who is wrong.
I will simply say this. I live and vote in California. Our primary is in June. If Sen. Sanders is still running, then he most certainly has my vote. It is not even close. Having said that, I should also say that I will wholeheartedly support either Sen. Sanders or Sec. Clinton as the nominee of the Democratic party.
Over the past three decades, right wingers have transformed the Republican party from a reasonable thoughtful organization which at one point supported home rule for the District of Columbia, and boasted about creating the Dept of HEW, into an insane asylum of far right wing extremism. I think it is time for the Democratic party to offer itself as a truly leftist/liberal alternative. I think Sen. Sanders is better qualified to do that. Hence he has my vote.
I would wager that the majority of Sen. Sanders supporters have an opinion similar to mine. So I don;t understand the need for hostility or rancor. Remember boys and girls, the 2 or more SCOTUS seats to be filled by the next President. This juvenile internecine squabbling accomplishes nothing except increasing the possibility that neither Sen. Sanders nor Sec. Clinton is making those SCOTUS nominations. I am sure we can all agree, that is an outcome that none of us wants.
mistlesuede March 27th, 2016 at 16:45
It would be nice if republican trolls were not allowed to come here and upset the comity that is fairly normal for us. They are very good at disguising themselves and Sanders supporters here including moderators take their side against the others. That was most of the problem here today.
I hope this problem will be fixed.
I’m sure everyone agrees with you on your points made.
Glen March 29th, 2016 at 10:23
I’m assuming you’re referring to me.
Yes, I’m a republican troll, who has been commenting on this site for years and consistently supports left-wing ideals, being “better than the republicans”, and real social justice, but I’m in it for the long game. I’ve been building my cachet for years, so that I can derail a few threads by calling out people for namecalling and presenting sourced facts, all to try to influence three or four people who aren’t ever going to change their minds anyway.
Brilliant idea, isn’t it?
Or, you could notice that all of the mods (apparently even Alan himself) have looked over the discussion, and told you that I deserve an apology for how you guys have treated me. But no, apparently they’re too stupid to see what you see – that I’m a republican troll trying to disguise myself as a Sanders supporter in order to… umm… what is it that you think I’m trying to achieve as a troll, exactly?
Apparently, I’m “coming here and upsetting the comity” by suggesting that you guys need to stop calling Sanders and his supporters idiots, whiners, losers, and angry, and by providing a reason why you guys shouldn’t dismiss Sanders so quickly.
Incidentally, I notice you edited out the false claim you made, that I pointed out was false, without an “edit” note. If you look over my posting history, you’ll see that I consistently add in an “EDIT” clause if I need to make a change, because I believe in being open and honest about my mistakes. You instead sought to hide and excuse your errors.
So please, stop calling me a troll, and maybe take a long, hard look at your own posting behaviours before you start hypocritically calling me out for mine.
—-
Now, because I don’t want this to continue with off-topic nonsense, I’m going to shift back to discussing what arc99 had to say. He has the right of it – Sanders is the one that is, in my view, the best candidate, but in the end, whether it’s Sanders or Clinton that gets the nomination, it has to be one of those two who gets the white house. Both Sanders and Clinton now take the attitude that they shouldn’t be attacking each other. Maybe the supporters, on both sides, will take a page from their preferred candidates, and start treating this like it really is:
a competition to determine who is best-positioned to run the country by using positive politics, so that the winner of that competition can then defeat whichever dangerous candidate the Republicans nominate – because let’s be honest, the only way that the Republicans will get a non-dangerous candidate at this point is if Jon Huntsman is brought in to be the “compromise” candidate… and the chances of that happening are less than the chances that Sanders and Clinton are both struck by lightning at the same moment, while campaigning in two different states, while wearing each others’ clothes.
And while the polls currently suggest that Sanders will wipe the floor with their candidates, and Clinton stands a solid chance of beating them, no risk of an upset should be permitted. Democrats need to unite behind BOTH candidates, stop bickering, stop name-calling, booing, or any other nonsense, and instead fight to inform the rest of the country about why they should vote for whichever of the Democratic candidates wins the nomination.
Why do I, as an Australian, care? Because if you guys let Trump become your next president, the rest of the world might just have to band together to overthrow your government. He would either be an incredibly dangerous insane man in charge of nuclear launch codes, or he would be a megalomaniacal mastermind who would stop at nothing in an effort to conquer the world, purely so he could rename Earth as “Trumpworld”. And Cruz, from what I can see, wouldn’t be much better (but I don’t think anyone would call him a mastermind).
mistlesuede March 29th, 2016 at 10:49
I just noticed you popped into my notifications. I don’t have time to read your book this morning. I’ll try to get back to you later today. I think we should talk it out.
Aielyn March 29th, 2016 at 10:52
Just in case anyone doubts me when I say I also occasionally post under “Aielyn” accidentally, I’ve logged into that account using another browser. I am Glen. And I figured I’d further demonstrate facts by linking to my wordpress account, which until now I hadn’t updated since 2011, but I updated just to further show that I’m Australian.
https://aielyn.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/waltzing-nintendo/ – proof that I’m Australian
https://aielyn.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/why-does-america-hate-liberals-and-socialism/ – showing again my left-wing positions.
https://aielyn.wordpress.com/2016/03/30/just-for-alan-com/ – and here’s my new post, to prove that it’s me.
mistlesuede March 29th, 2016 at 18:30
Glen or whomever you are:
I was ready to give peace a chance here and read your reply in both of your names (?), discuss things, maybe even give you an apology for Carla and Alan’s sake, for some misunderstandings.
When I went to read your comment history first to try to get a feel for what transpired previously between you and Tracey and to try to understand you better as I’ve never once seen you before on this website in over three months, I discovered that you went to a private website where I have been invited and chose to call me a “liar.” Not only did you annoy the wonderful people there, but the owner has now had to close it. What you thought you were going to accomplish by doing that is beyond me, but what it does do is prevent me from further conversation with you because you need help. It also classifies you as a troll, which you so vehemently deny.
Therefore, because of that intrusion, my previous good intentions to deal with you differently have come to an end. I am always leery of people who write books at other people believing that they have nothing better to do but be captivated by their every word. In my experience over the past few years, I’ve concluded that people like this suffer from some kind of deficit. It is especially true of people who seem to have to make announcements of what their education level is. I have also noticed throughout my life that there are people who are “book smart, people dumb” which is how I’d describe you. In other words, you have no couth. That’s why I chose to blow you off in the first place. Sometimes first impressions are correct. That was certainly the case here.
Good luck to you in your future endeavors. Please do not bother me again.
~mistlesuede
TiredOldGuy March 29th, 2016 at 18:52
I think I mentioned previously how you seem to be “flypaper for freaks”. You must be putting out some serious pheromones over the net Misty.
mistlesuede March 29th, 2016 at 19:32
I’m glad you can make me laugh about it! I can always rely on you to make me smile. I feel bad for my friends at the private site though. They don’t need this kind of crap. That is classic trolling and he should be banned.
tracey marie March 29th, 2016 at 19:25
that was extremely rude and he was name calling…you should flag it.Did he go to the blog and cause trouble there as well.
mistlesuede March 29th, 2016 at 19:41
I just flagged his intrusion on MP. She has closed that thread. I am really disgusted. This is classic trolling behavior.
tracey marie March 29th, 2016 at 19:42
He was most definetly trolling you around the net. Then his whining and more longwinded trash talk…he is a child
Glen March 29th, 2016 at 21:49
OK, now I know you have to be kidding. I said she was “basically lying” about me. I didn’t name-call, not once. Saying someone is lying is an accusation of an act, namecalling would be calling someone a “whiner”, a “loser”, or a “long-winded ranter”. I didn’t say mistlesuede is a liar, I said she was lying then.
If anyone here doubts what I have to say, here’s the disqus link to what I said:
https://disqus.com/home/discussion/marlieisenigma2/chat_room_number_19/newest/#comment-2594997308
… because I always source my claims if there’s reason to doubt them.
You think otherwise? What name did I call her?
tracey marie March 29th, 2016 at 21:51
stop, you stalked her.
Glen March 29th, 2016 at 22:00
This from the person that went out of their way to comment on every one of my comments in this thread, purely to call me a “long-winded ranter” and say nothing at all on the topic at hand or respond in any way to anything I had actually said.
I found that thread because I was curious as to other things mistlesuede had been saying on alan.com, because I believed mistlesuede to have simply been having a bad day (and I’d just spent time looking over my own history, to see if I’d said anything inappropriate at any point). So I clicked her name to view her history.
Imagine my surprise when I find her most recent posts are her attacking me on another forum. It wasn’t good enough for her to be calling me names and attacking me on this forum for the gall of calling her out for namecalling and getting her facts wrong – she had to turn around and do it on another forum, too. As I’ve demonstrated, I’m no troll, I’m most certainly not ‘new to the site’ as she claimed, I’m quite undoubtedly not a republican, and even the mods, and Alan himself, have looked over the discussion and seen nothing wrong with what I’ve said.
Now, if you’re done stalking me (given that this wasn’t a reply to you, yet you replied within 10 minutes of my post), it would be much appreciated.
EDIT: I’d said 2, by mistake. mea culpa.
tracey marie March 29th, 2016 at 22:02
stop stalking me
Glen March 29th, 2016 at 22:02
Oh the hypocrisy.
Glen March 30th, 2016 at 03:34
And would you look at that – they deleted it. There was nothing uncivil about my post, but it got deleted, without even an acknowledgement that there was a deleted post there, as happens routinely on this site. They didn’t delete the lies that were being told about me, only my clarification of the truth.
The fact of the matter is, none of these people have a leg to stand on in their claims. So instead, they hypocritically call out others for being “rude” and “obnoxious” while simultaneously saying things like “Would you care for some cheese with your whiiiiiiiine?”, throwing every ad hominem they can think of at people, and refusing to ever acknowledge any actual on-topic point made.
Tracey went out of her way to post offensive off-topic stuff in response to every single post I made, and then had the gall to accuse me of being a stalker. mistlesuede had the gall to go around calling me a troll on multiple websites, and then try to tell me that I was the one treating her unfairly when I called her out on it. And it turns out that they’re using their “Chat Room” to complain about the moderators here, too.
rg9rts has the gall to complain about mea_mark’s moderating, but didn’t even hesitate before deleting my single comment on the site he moderates (and I have no doubt whatsoever that it was him, since the site owner had undoubtedly seen it long before it was deleted), whereas mea_mark is quite restrained about removing posts that he disagrees with.
They have the gall to call me a troll, while simultaneously trolling me with phrases like “he’s a loser”, “You must have me confused with someone who would care what you think”, “You seem anal”, and “People who are anal don’t usually understand sarcasm. That must be his problem”.
I only ever called out behaviour. And I suspect that the mods agree with me that saying things like “on the count of 3 all Bernie supporters WHINE” (followed by “It gets louder all the time.”, followed by “Annoying brats”), or “He does not exist in my mind at this point and neither does the
supposedly Australian commenting annoyance trolling one who followed
Tracey to do more to some of us.”
And of course, the hypocrisy. mistlesuede says “She has totally edited it to change the meaning. Just noticed it. How pathetic.” after editing one of her comments to remove a glaringly false claim without noting a mistake had been made, in an effort to whitewash their mistakes and claim innocence. And mistlesuede also says that I don’t exist in their mind because I was apparently “following Tracey to do more to some of [them]” (even thought it’s Tracey that followed me around to post ad hominem attacks).
These people should be grateful that they haven’t been banned, in my view. I post a passionate call for people to stop attacking each other, and I’m labelled a troll by these people who seem to spend all of their time attacking everyone that disagrees with them. To borrow from a biblical concept, perhaps they should be dealing with the log in their eye before they complain about the speck in mine.
Glen March 29th, 2016 at 21:43
Really? I’m a troll for defending my name when you chose to call me a troll on two different websites? I have extensively proven that I am none of the things you’ve accused me of.
I made one single post on your “Chat Room”. It was directed only at the owner (or at least, I assume it’s the owner, as the name matches the name of the site), it was written politely, and it demonstrated that you were lying. It has gotten no replies whatsoever. I made absolutely clear that I had no intention of any further posts, and that I was merely clearing my name, after having found out that ALL FOUR of the people in this thread who went on the attack against me are regulars of that site.
Incidentally, if you think I “write books” because I construct proper arguments, and this is part of why you think I’m a troll, you need help.
Now I’m sorry, but this is a discussion forum. If you can’t accept someone calling you out when you throw ad hominems around, if you can’t tolerate someone you don’t like replying to your posts, then don’t post.
Oh, and your “thread”, that you say was closed because of me, had already been replaced by the new one prior to my post, 20 minutes earlier. And given the nature of that kind of setup, clearly the intention was for people to move to the new thread, which would be why the owner closed the old thread.
mistlesuede March 29th, 2016 at 22:14
What do you not understand about “Please do not bother me again.”
Perhaps I used the wrong word. Stalker is more fitting.
stalk·er
ˈstôkər/Submit
noun
a person who stealthily hunts or pursues an animal or another person.
a person who harasses or persecutes someone with unwanted and obsessive attention.
I’m saying this for the last time, do not bother me again.
Glen March 29th, 2016 at 22:29
You call me names behind my back in public, and then complain when I find out about it. That’s all that happened, here.
And I have every right to reply to your reply to me. And more generally to comment on a public forum. I don’t care how much you tell me to leave you alone, that’s now how this system works. As I said, I have no intention of ever posting on your other forum again.
I also am not going to seek you out at any point in the future – but if I see something said that I can confidently say is false, I’ll call it out for what it is, no matter who says it.
Mensa Member March 27th, 2016 at 17:14
Considering the hundreds of policies needed to be president, how much overlap is there between Bernie and Hillary? 90% Higher?
Who can’t live with 90%?
mea_mark March 27th, 2016 at 17:39
Read this a little while ago … let’s say it sums up my take on things.
http://www.salon.com/2016/03/27/robert_reich_this_is_a_working_class_revolt_partner/
Hirightnow March 28th, 2016 at 10:13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAT_BuJAI70
😜
clemans March 28th, 2016 at 15:18
I am some days on the fence between Hillary and Bernie, I donate money to Bernie, but I agree with you, we have too much to lose if the GOP gets in. All one has to do is read the GOP platforms…..and listen to what they have to say for themselves to know we don’t want them.
I do not have any idea why Bernie and Hillary supporters can’t be on civil terms. The object ought to be to try to win friends and influence enemies not try to create new ones and turn people off the person one supports. Some of the Bernie supporters have been so childish and obnoxious, that at first I was turned off by Bernie. But then I went to see him in person, and He is so right about education……about 14 other nations provide for free college…..at least one will educate Americans for free too and I think Germany has something to offer Americans too. They do it for brain drain….college kids get internships there and then if the are bright enough and work well, get offered jobs there, not here. Education is a National Security issue.
And I have seen some obnoxious people saying they support Hillary. But Hillary has made it clear, she wants Bernie supporters to work with her if she happens to win the nomination.
Alan March 27th, 2016 at 19:47
Let me second what Carla said. She and Mark work diligently without compensation to keep things civil here. The attraction of this site is that we are able to engage intelligently and respectfully and we want to maintain that tone. Please help the moderators by continuing to take that higher road.
Foundryman March 28th, 2016 at 12:48
Both my sons are rabid Bernie supporters, they claim Bernie supporters will never support Hillary, I told them I hope they enjoy President Trump.
The absolute worse thing that can happen in this election is the refusal of Bernie supporters to support Hillary if she wins or the refusal of Hillary supporters to support Bernie if he wins. it will almost guarantee a Trump or Cruz presidency.
At this point, it looks like the Democrats have an opportunity to win the Presidency for the third term in a row for the first time since Truman. let’s not pull defeat from the jaws of victory, vote against the republicans in the general, across the board.
mistlesuede March 28th, 2016 at 16:10
Hear, hear!