‘Where Does It Stop?’ If You Can Force Women To Carry Down Syndrome Fetuses
That’s what CNN host Alisyn Camerota wanted to know from Ohio State Rep. John Becker, who wants to force women to bring these fetuses to term.
The bill, filed earlier this year by Republicans in Ohio, wouldban abortions for women who did not want to carry a fetus that had been diagnosed with Down syndrome.
On Monday, bill co-sponsor John Decker explained to Camerota that the bill would punish abortion doctors with jail time but not the mothers.
“Did you talk to parents who have had to make this decision?” Camerota wondered.
“Well, no,” Decker admitted, adding that he had met people with Down syndrome who contributed to society.
“And what the pro-choice side would say is that it is a deeply personal decision of parents,” Camerota noted. “And that the state is getting in the way of that personal decision.”
“I mean, Representative, where does it stop?” she asked. “What else can the state tell you about how many children you should have or what other personal decisions are you comfortable with the state making for you?”
“This is a matter of a life and death decision,” Decker insisted. “And sure, this gets into the hard cases. And when you are making law based on hard cases, that generally makes for bad law. And so carving out exceptions for fetal abnormalities, and in this particular case, oftentimes — it’s not unusually anyway — when a baby is diagnosed with Down syndrome, the diagnosis is wrong. I think that occurs 20 percent of the time.”
“I’m not sure about those statistics,” Camerota replied. “It’s nice to think that all those babies would be adopted but history doesn’t necessarily prove that they are always adopted. In fact, many are institutionalized at great cost.”
Copyright 2015 Liberaland
29 responses to ‘Where Does It Stop?’ If You Can Force Women To Carry Down Syndrome Fetuses
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Mike August 24th, 2015 at 13:06
We must stop using the PC term of Pro-Life and call these people what they are …Forced Birthers
Foundryman August 24th, 2015 at 14:52
Despots, Tyrants, Cultists…they fit too..
ohpaleasegivemeabreak August 24th, 2015 at 18:31
I’ve been saying this for a long time.
You have to correct the Pro-Life lie EVERY time you see it.
Wearisome but it hits home once ever-so-often.
Bunya August 24th, 2015 at 13:24
Sure. And women should be forced to carry to term babies who have hydrocephalus, so the mother can watch it die a slow, painful death.
.
Cold, callous people like John Becker should be forced to suffer a slow, painful death – preferably by waterboarding.
Mike August 24th, 2015 at 14:06
Women should start a movement to deny men treatment for stuff like STD’s or maybe testicle cancer…after all, it is god’s will that we suffer these ailments and why should men get to alter the will of god by using science…next thing you know, they’ll have humans flying….Doh!!!!
Bunya August 24th, 2015 at 21:12
I think it’s because Christian dogma teaches that they were put on the planet to promote suffering. That’s why it’s “god’s will” that a woman be forced to give birth to a product of rape, and it’s also “god’s will” to keep a terminally ill person alive and in extreme pain.
CandideThirtythree August 25th, 2015 at 02:07
Suffering is what keeps the pews full.
ohpaleasegivemeabreak August 25th, 2015 at 07:50
According to Murika’s Single Most Holy of All Families – The Holiest of all The Holy Duggars – you MUST suffer or you are not holy.
The Original Just Me August 24th, 2015 at 13:48
This anti-abortion lunacy has gone far enough. It is time to get the SO CALLED Christian Republicans OUT of our personal and private lives. They are carrying their NAZIISM WAY TOO FAR !
Dwendt44 August 24th, 2015 at 14:41
The law is similar to the Nazis when they outlawed abortion. The woman AND the doctor would both be punished severely. Up to and including the death penalty.
The Original Just Me August 24th, 2015 at 18:46
It started with the Tea Party and has now spread to the main stream Republican Party. The Allies defeated Germany in WW II but they never stopped the NAZI Party movement. It is alive and doing well, within the Republican RANKS.
Roctuna August 24th, 2015 at 13:49
They get these stats, like 20% of the Downs Syndrome diagnoses are wrong, from other forced-birth orgs and think tanks and then base “hard case” laws on unfounded data that they “think” may be accurate. Yeah, that’s good government talibagger style.
allison1050 August 24th, 2015 at 15:35
And they claim to want “smaller government”..riiight.
azeyote August 24th, 2015 at 14:11
yea and if they had their way, they would cut off all funding to help take care of them
allison1050 August 24th, 2015 at 15:34
Bingo!!
FatRat August 24th, 2015 at 14:24
And so carving out exceptions for fetal abnormalities, and in this particular case, oftentimes — it’s not unusually anyway — when a baby is diagnosed with Down syndrome, the diagnosis is wrong. I think that occurs 20 percent of the time.
http://www.downsyndromeprenataltesting.com/physicians-too-many-doing-down-syndrome-prenatal-testing-wrong/
Physicians: too many doing Down syndrome prenatal testing wrong (somewhat misleading title)
Reaction to diagnosis
“Grief was reported as a primary reaction to the diagnosis from parents in both the pre- and post-natal group. … Parents described having to go through the process of ‘mourning the loss of their baby.’”
Having a child to hold allowed acceptance to progress. As one mom with a prenatal diagnosis put it:
Those fears continued until minutes after I delivered her. I stared at her in awe and realized she was perfect. I felt a sense of calm at that point.
Among those in the prenatal group:
Almost 1-in-4 had a medical professional who was insistent on terminating the pregnancy (John Becker is cooking the stats. That isn’t a misdiagnosis, it’s a medical opinion. John Becker would never agree with this assclown John Becker.) lol
And a lack of compassion by their medical professional
They reported a lack of information provided to them about Down syndrome from their medical professional
And a lack of compassion by their medical professional
The real Dr. John Becker.
http://bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/11196000/ngbbs4580de2db5777.jpg
Roctuna August 24th, 2015 at 15:38
I read through your link twice. If that is indeed the source of Mr. Decker’s “20% are wrong” then he just pulled that number out of a dark place as it has no basis in fact according to that article. I wonder which forced-birth org gave him that number?
Mike August 24th, 2015 at 17:18
Actually the link provided does not speak to the veracity of the test(s) used, it merely is a critique on bedside manner if you will…
The diagnostic procedures available for prenatal diagnosis of Down syndrome are chorionic villus sampling (CVS) and amniocentesis. These procedures, which carry up to a 1% risk of causing a spontaneous termination (miscarriage), are nearly 100% accurate in diagnosing Down syndrome.
http://www.ndss.org/Resources/New-Expectant-Parents/Understanding-a-Diagnosis-of-Down-Syndrome/
I always expect these pious christian fundy types to exaggerate or lie, and sadly, I’m almost never disappointed…It would seem Mr Becker is nothing more than a bold faced liar and the reporter is guilty for not challenging a claim from such an obviously bias source.
Roctuna August 24th, 2015 at 21:17
Their willingness and easy ability to lie through their teeth with a holier than thou smile on their faces is one of their most aggravating traits.
CandideThirtythree August 25th, 2015 at 02:05
ALL republicans are bald face liars…you have to lie when defending something that you know is wrong, no need to lie when you are doing something good.
Republicans are desperate because they are defending their 1850s ideals so of course they have to lie.
Foundryman August 24th, 2015 at 14:54
It takes most people 18-20 years to raise a child, raising a downs syndrome child takes a lifetime. I know a woman who is 78 right now and STILL is a care giver and mother to someone who is 53 who can’t tie their shoes. A decision that has that kind of burden on a person and family is personal and some bald headed moron republican should be slapped silly just for suggesting this.
Seriously…public flogging is to good for this low life liar.
jasperjava August 24th, 2015 at 15:23
Public flogging might have a point if it could knock some sense into these boneheads, otherwise… No.
I can see why Republicans would come to the defence of the intellectually disabled. That’s their base. Of course, they don’t have Down’s syndrome as a reason for it.
I’ve known people with developmental disabilities, and they are the sweetest friendliest people you’re likely to meet. They would not make good Republicans.
Robert M. Snyder August 25th, 2015 at 02:36
Most Americans would probably not object to aborting an early-term pregnancy when there is a significant birth defect. But it gets more controversial as the pregnancy moves into the last months. What if Down Syndrome is not detected until the ninth month? What if it is not detected until twenty minutes after the baby is born? In all of these cases, the burden of care is the same. Does the stage of development make a difference? If it’s okay to abort a baby one week before birth, how about one week after birth? Where do we draw the line? Is there a simple answer?
ohpaleasegivemeabreak August 25th, 2015 at 07:47
Then SIMPLE thing to do is IGNORE THE PROBLEM and do nothing.
Then sit back and whine when you don’t like the outcome.
That’s how looking for the easy way out works.
BTW – what makes you think it’s any of your BUSINESS what a woman who is carrying a DS baby does?
Robert M. Snyder August 25th, 2015 at 08:41
Nice job of avoiding the question.
Foundryman August 25th, 2015 at 11:21
If the birth defect is found late in pregnancy, again it is the mothers decision, not yours or the state based on some religious fanatics beliefs.
Personally, as a living breathing walking talking and thinking human being I find it rather insulting to be compared with a fetus. There is a major difference between one who is actually born and one who is not. This whole personhood idea, where they want to give a zygote the same legal rights as a human being is repugnant. So yes, the stage of development makes a difference. Let’s make people, people first by slapping their little bottoms and making them cry. As long as they are firmly attached to the mothers womb, they are not a individual, they are part of the mothers body, she gets to make the decisions affecting it, no one else.
Robert M. Snyder August 25th, 2015 at 16:11
I’m sure that you have seen the surveys. The vast majority of Americans are okay with early-term abortions, but have strong reservations about late-term abortions. I am not suggesting that morality should be dictated by public opinion. But most people do not regard a full-term fetus as being equivalent to a zygote.
You are suggesting that a fetus instantly becomes a baby at the moment of birth. I can see why that definition might lend clarity to the legal issue, but from a scientific perspective a fetus does not become a baby all at once. It becomes a baby gradually. I think that explains why Americans have strong reservations about near-full-term abortions.
The utilitarian argument is that it is unfair to burden a family with a child who will require a lifetime of care. But the same argument could be used to justify infanticide. Suppose a 39-week pregnant woman is involved in a car accident. She is taken to the hospital and her abdomen is examined by ultrasound. A serious birth defect that was not previously noticed is discovered. The woman schedules an abortion for the following day and goes home. During the night, she goes into labor and the baby is delivered by paramedics at 3am.
By your definition, the fetus is now a baby. That woman is saddled with the burden of care. But if the baby had remained inside her body for 12 more hours, she would have been relieved of that burden.
I think that most people are not satisfied by your definition of personhood beginning at the moment of birth. Most people know, from the science, that a fetus becomes a person gradually. Most people believe that it is far more serious to abort a late-term pregnancy that to abort an early-term pregnancy. Where you see black and white, most people see shades of gray.
If it’s not okay to kill newborn babies who have birth defects, then why is it okay to kill 39-week fetuses who have birth defects? Or to put it the other way around, if it’s okay to abort a 39-week fetus that has birth defects, then why is it not okay to kill a one-hour old baby who has the same birth defects?
Your all-or-nothing, moment-of-birth definition of personhood completely ignores the science, but life does not ignore science. Real-life events are governed by science. A woman who is planning an abortion can suddenly and unexpectedly give birth. What would you say to that woman? “Sorry, honey. The stork came.”?
jasperjava August 24th, 2015 at 17:20
“Where does it stop”
Let’s not be naïve, here.
It doesn’t stop until America is a full-blown Bible-based theocracy, and women are put in their place: barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.
Tommie August 24th, 2015 at 22:51
Many people can’t afford to take care of a child for the rest of their lives and they want people to bring a sick child into this world! Healthcare is expensive just because as a politician you do not have to worry about healthcare not everybody is that lucky, dumba$$!