Soledad O’Brien: Stop Saying ‘Thug’
The former CNN journalist spoke on that network’s “Reliable Sources”.
O’Brien told her old network’s Reliable Sources Sunday morning that journalists had an obligation to choose their words more carefully than simply calling protesters, however violent, “thugs,” arguing the word lacked descriptive properties and functioned solely as racial code.
“For journalists to have a debate back and forth about thugs or thuggery is naive and misplaced,” O’Brien said. “Journalists should strive to use words to describe accurately what’s happening.”
…“I think there’s violent protesters, there’s drunk protesters, angry protesters,” she said. “When you look specifically about how the word riot is used, how the word thug is used, it’s always used around people of color, specifically in an inner city context…Journalists should think about a word that actually doesn’t have a lot of nuance and isn’t specific, but somehow seems to be used a lot when talking about African-Americans.”
Copyright 2015 Liberaland
79 responses to Soledad O’Brien: Stop Saying ‘Thug’
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Kick Frenzy May 3rd, 2015 at 17:16
Good on ya, Soledad!
Excellent points!!!
whatthe46 May 3rd, 2015 at 17:21
lets hope they heard her!
allison1050 May 3rd, 2015 at 17:40
And THAT’S what I’ve been talking about! Thank you Soledad!
whatthe46 May 3rd, 2015 at 17:44
EXACTLY!
allison1050 May 3rd, 2015 at 18:07
People refuse to accept in this particular instance the evolution of words and the meanings. Soledad is absolutely correct using her examples of the media being selective as to what they call a “riot” and Who what they’re called.
bpollen May 3rd, 2015 at 23:39
I always kinda liked her. She was one of the few TV journos who would actually ask hard questions.
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 06:35
They should have kept her but she’s not the sensational type.
bpollen May 5th, 2015 at 05:31
Media consolidation has meant that fewer and fewer people control the vast majority of media, and they really don’t want actual journalists. They want paid shills, sensation, scandal, and beat the hell out of anything that maximizes the profit margin.
allison1050 May 5th, 2015 at 05:48
I unfortunately have to agree with you bpollen.
Wee Mousie May 4th, 2015 at 02:36
A famous print media example of this same phenomena from the post-Katrina flooding in New Orleans.
amongoose May 3rd, 2015 at 17:47
Thug – a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer.
Seems to fit their actions.
Nowhere in the definition does it refer to a particular race.
Just because you don’t like the word or it’s connotation doesn’t make it racist.
whatthe46 May 3rd, 2015 at 17:51
when the white students (college) riot over a game (doing the exact same distruction mind you) or over the penn state firing, and including the pumpkin festival, they were not called “thugs” just kids being upset or drunk. never thugs. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/11/white-people-rioting-for-no-reason.html
Kick Frenzy May 3rd, 2015 at 18:02
Like Whatthe just said… the problem isn’t in the definition of the word, it’s in the use of it.
In January, students at Ohio State rioted in celebration of winning a football game.
While the word “riot” was used, there was no mention of “thugs” or “criminals” or anything like that.
They were referred to as “students”, “crowds” and “celebrators”.
A cracker is just the lame cousin of a cookie… unless it’s used intentionally to denigrate a white person, then it’s racist.
Same for “thug”.
When it’s used exclusively to describe black people, it becomes racist.
toncuz May 3rd, 2015 at 18:11
And those people were WRONG for not using the PROPER words to describe those college students..They were THUGS.
Stop trying to stifle free speech because it doesn’t fit your political agenda.
Kick Frenzy May 3rd, 2015 at 18:39
I wouldn’t call those students thugs either.
Arsonists? Sure.
Using destructive behavior? Sure.
But I don’t think they were acting like thugs, overall.
Maybe some of them were, but I didn’t see it so I can’t really comment on any particular behavior.
Just like in Baltimore.
Most people there weren’t acting like thugs, although a few were.
(Which is who Obama was referring to.)
There’s the dictionary definition, but then there’s the social use of a word.
The way “thug” is used in the media, it’s almost exclusively used to describe black people doing things that would get a different word if it were white people.
I’m not trying to stifle free speech.
But racism and hate speech don’t get the full protection of free speech, nor should they.
(And looking through the comments on this article, there’s plenty of hate speech and some racism as well.)
bpollen May 3rd, 2015 at 23:35
See, complaining about racist code words is actually protected speech, and free speech, and is covered by the 1st Amendment. Stop trying to stifle THEIR free speech if you are so concerned.
EmmanuelKShannon May 4th, 2015 at 02:58
Ton go look at old broadcast during Katrina and watch who are called thugs and looters.
amongoose May 3rd, 2015 at 18:47
So it’s the usage that matters not definition of the word?
It is racist because it is being used to describe the actions of blacks in this instance, because they acted like thugs.
.
Seriously, people need to grow a few layers of skin.
I don’t take offense even at the names (many very derogatory) that I am called. Especially when they aren’t true. It’s just a little mind out of ideas.
.
Marie has repeatedly called me a racist, but when I ask what I said that was racist, and how it was racist there is no reply.
.
The best way to avoid being called a thug is to not act like one.
whatthe46 May 3rd, 2015 at 18:54
so what do you think the white people were called by the media in the link i attached in response to your first post?
amongoose May 3rd, 2015 at 19:16
Does it matter? You are arguing over words when the conversation should be about how to remedy the situation.
Redefining words does nothing to create jobs and make the streets safe in Baltimore.
whatthe46 May 3rd, 2015 at 19:29
what situation are you speaking to remedy? there are quite a few.
amongoose May 3rd, 2015 at 19:41
The jobs that aren’t there, the sixth highest murder rate and the second highest crime rate in the country,
.
Why hasn’t the one party that has been in elected office continuously for the last fifty years been able to improve the situation.
.
I agree that they have good reason to be mad, but they should take to task the ones they have elected who made promises they nowhere near kept.
whatthe46 May 3rd, 2015 at 19:47
that’s one situation. but that’s not going to stop cops from murdering black unarmed black men all across this country. working or not, they are targets. the police department is suppose to “protect” its citizens, not murder them. if the situation within the police department doesn’t change, this will continue. it has nothing to do with employment. you think every black man in the past couple of years that were murdered was unemployed or had criminal records? and it sure as hell shouldn’t matter if they did nothing wrong.
amongoose May 3rd, 2015 at 20:16
You do realize that more whites are killed by cops every year than blacks.
.
According to the Centers for Disease Control, between 1999 and 2011, 2,151 whites died as a result of being shot by police compared to 1,130 blacks.
whatthe46 May 3rd, 2015 at 20:30
how many of them were unarmed?
amongoose May 3rd, 2015 at 20:44
CDC statistics don’t show that.
But considering that blacks (18-34 – 3% of population) commit almost half of the crime you would think the number would be higher due to their being in contact with the police more.
whatthe46 May 3rd, 2015 at 20:48
you do realize that those numbers do not reflect those that are actually innocent of crimes they were found to be convicted of right. and if white people were actually arrested and convicted of the crimes they commit you’d see those number change. but that will never be the case. i tried to search unarmed white men killed by cops and i only found a couple. why can’t you tell me the answer?
amongoose May 3rd, 2015 at 21:09
Can’t find it either.
.
So are you saying they have a lower crime rate than the FBI reports give?
Sure there are innocent people convicted, odds are of all races.
Most blacks murdered are murdered by other blacks, finding a way to stop that would be a good starting point, then work on fatherless homes. Problem is this isn’t something that government can do, blacks have to look at the culture that has been corrupted.
Art mimics life.
Listen to the music, and tell me that that’s a culture to be proud of?
.
What were a good, moral, and hard working people. have had their families destroyed, crowed into Ghettos by their leaders, been given handouts rather than jobs so what do you expect after 50 years.
They have been treated like they could not take care of themselves, dependency is the result.
“Cast Down Your Bucket Where You Are” Booker T. Washington
whatthe46 May 3rd, 2015 at 21:26
“Listen to the music, and tell me that that’s a culture to be proud of?” first off, they are only telling a story of the life they know, the life they’ve lived. art imitates life. you also assume all black people live that life.
“What were a good, moral, and hard working people. have had their families destroyed, crowed into Ghettos by their leaders, been given handouts rather than jobs so what do you expect after 50 years.”
are assuming that there aren’t good and hard working people? hard working people with low incomes, living where they can afford to live. handouts? like food assistance/public assistance? if the police aren’t arresting and putting their father’s in prison for decades for b.s. they’d have a complete family.
now, you say you can’t find anything about unarmed white men being killed by police, well you can easily google the same question regarding black men and there’s an answer. furthermore, there are those with no criminal records, who had children and who had jobs that are no longer there to care for them thanks to the police. so, if their wives and children need assistance, thank the system that took their father away.
whatthe46 May 3rd, 2015 at 21:45
“Sure there are innocent people convicted, odds are of all races.” but more are minorities. poor representation including false charges. plea deals because they are threatened with harder times, even though they are innocent. this takes away from their families, the system places these mother’s with children to support in those positions.
EmmanuelKShannon May 4th, 2015 at 02:55
Depends on the music you’re listening to I can listen to styles p and he can say something like “feeling like killing every rapper then holding something up” and come back and end the song with “I said money you the root of evil how we print in god we trust knowing what you do to people but i’m hard felon so i grabbed two stacks dirty and bloody cuz i heard my car yelling”
Same rapper can say “have i thought about my life as a bad guy made a lot of money selling rocks that was capsized, robbed a lot of people like i never was baptized” then go to
“There’s a part of me that loves being gangsta all of me i couldn’t help but get in the game it was calling me, and i think i was calling it back but you can’t help but trip when you fall in a trap”
I can listen to multitude of deathcore, deathmetal, etc and hear things about killing myself and hanging someone from a tree and yet I can also hear a song from metal telling me to stand on my own feet and rise up. Also as 90% of blacks are murdered by other blacks according to fbi statistics 83% of whites are killed by guess who, that argument is the most annoying to me because it’s solely based on your surroundings. If I live in a area that is mainly a certain demographic(like most black americans do) and i’m a violent criminal then guess who i’m attacking?
Also like many have told black culture has been slowly deteriorated thanks in part to unjust incarceration at high numbers of black males, The destruction of black communitues, etc. Let me add that these aren’t things that just began if you look back far enough you can see black communities deteriorating in the 60 and 70’s because of gentrification, unjust policing, drugs brought in by organizations like the fbi(i know it’s a believed conspiracy but all I have to say to that is Rick Ross)etc. I mean must I bring up Tuska, Oklahoma, or the way now recognized figureheads of the Harlem Renaissance were targeted? You say black americans were given handouts by their leaders why is it that a black person in cleveland who wants to buy a house in shaker(affluent neighborhood) has to buy a house on the “ethnic” side few roads down from what could be considered the ghetto. I don’t mean to come off rude but you really have some blinders on if you cannot see these things.
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 06:47
Try FBI.com
amongoose May 4th, 2015 at 08:22
I did, there are no statistics I can find on unarmed victims.
Kick Frenzy May 3rd, 2015 at 21:29
There’s also a much larger percentage of white people in the country than there are black people.
In 2013, whites made up about 72% of the country, while blacks were about 13%.
There were 2,985,757 white babies born in 2013.
There were 634,760 black babies born that same year.
Those numbers mean blacks would have to be targeted at an extremely higher rate than whites in order to reach that number.
whatthe46 May 3rd, 2015 at 21:38
THANK YOU!!!!!
amongoose May 4th, 2015 at 00:33
That 13%, actually more like 3% (16-34 males) account for almost half of crime, and the overwhelming number of black murders.
That they have more contact with the police because of a higher crime rate might have something to do with it.
.
Whites commit almost the same numbers of crimes with six times the population.
whatthe46 May 4th, 2015 at 00:45
that’s suggesting they are guilty of a crime to begin with. and whites are not targeted even when they should be. furthermore, you’re only talking about black on black crimes, but forget the white on white crimes and white on family crimes are much higher as well.
Kick Frenzy May 5th, 2015 at 14:04
I imagine those numbers are misleading when you consider how many white people get off with a warning and how many black people get the book thrown at them for similar offenses (or less).
You also have to consider that poor neighborhoods have a higher crime rate.
Black people have been purposefully shuffled and kept in those areas by people in power, not to mention the history of disadvantages they have had to endure and still do to this day.
In other words, blacks commit more crimes because they’re poor… not because their black.
The color of your skin doesn’t make you more likely to commit a crime, your environment does.
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 06:45
Then why don’t whites scream about that?
amongoose May 4th, 2015 at 08:23
That I don’t have an answer for they should be just as mad.
Kick Frenzy May 3rd, 2015 at 21:18
They’ve been trying to take their message to those who can do something.
That’s the problem… instead of getting help standing up, they’ve been getting kicked down at every turn.
The area has lost schooling, jobs (as you mentioned) and more… which, of course, does an extreme amount of harm.
whatthe46 May 3rd, 2015 at 21:37
the police department is acting on its own. what does the promise of a politician have to do with police beating and murdering unarmed black men and women and children?
amongoose May 3rd, 2015 at 23:40
Those politicians have been in uninterrupted control of those police for fifty years.
If they are not responsible then they are at least culpable, or worse enablers of those actions.
whatthe46 May 3rd, 2015 at 23:55
nonsense. you don’t let the police, police themselves. the chief of police, it starts with them. the prosecutors need to start indicting, and there needs to be firing. there is no suspension w/ pay. an infraction that involves false arrest, immediate discharge. an infraction that involves domestic violence, immediate discharge. the chief of police and the prosecutors are the enablers.
Kick Frenzy May 3rd, 2015 at 21:15
Racism is part of the problem.
The optics presented by the news is part of the problem.
So yes, it matters a lot.
In fact, if we ignore words that seriously offend other people, then we are dooming ourselves to never having a full remedy to the problems.
whatthe46 May 3rd, 2015 at 21:36
he didn’t really answer it either. or respond to their actions.
whatthe46 May 3rd, 2015 at 21:48
and they continue to repeat it everyday.
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 06:43
My lovely amongoose, words indeed matter sorry.
amongoose May 4th, 2015 at 08:25
Words do matter, it is why English is the language of business because it is so precise. but they are a sideshow distraction to the real problems that need to be solved.
.
Am interested in what you think the solutions for the high unemployment rate, crime rates, and fatherless homes are.
.
And call me goose,
please.
Kick Frenzy May 3rd, 2015 at 21:12
I feel like I shouldn’t even respond to a comment asking if the usage matters more than the traditional definition.
If I call you an asshole, do you think I mean you look exactly like a sphincter?
If I call you a Cracker, do you think I see you as a saltine?
If I say a crowd of your friends are acting like animals, how likely is it because they’re actually walking on all fours and smelling each others naked butts?
Seriously man, think about your argument before clicking “Post”.
bpollen May 3rd, 2015 at 23:32
Not so very long ago, “gay” was used in place of “happy.” Things change in a living language. And choosing words to use almost entirely in relation to one group in a way to denigrate that group has a long racist history in this country.
amongoose May 3rd, 2015 at 23:44
Wasn’t aware that the word was used exclusively on blacks. I hear it used on others as well.
.
What has held blacks down/back/anything you want to call it are their own leaders.
And have been failing their constituents for decades.
bpollen May 3rd, 2015 at 23:50
Oh, OK, where do you get your expertise on the whole of black culture? I can point to a litany of horrid white leaders. Doesn’t that mean that that all white problems can be traced to all the white leaders who have been failing their constituencies for decades? That it’s not immigrants and minorities that take all the good white jobs as I so often hear postulated, but their white leaders?
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 06:54
You need to rethink that thought dear.
amongoose May 4th, 2015 at 08:21
I think we need to argue less over words and talk more about how to solve the problems of the black community.
Their leaders have failed them, something new needs to be tried..
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 13:14
Does this mean that you went to the link as I asked to listen to her reasons why? Nope? I won’t wait for you. Leaders haven’t failed dear, politicians and corporations have failed people. Remember they’re the ones who control the purse strings. Figure that part out and accept that words and the meanings do indeed change and you’ll be on the road to seeing things differently. Buh bye
Khary A May 4th, 2015 at 14:29
GET EM ALLISON!!
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 14:31
:o)
Khary A May 4th, 2015 at 14:30
yeah from what I see that’s the systemic eradication of black faces in the streets and voting booths of America. Thanks for the well thought out plan.
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 14:33
lol
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 13:15
Work on your listening and reading skills. When have you ever heard whites referred to as thugs? When they riot and destroy have you heard them described as thugs and their riots over nothing as riots? The answer is no. So what say you?
allison1050 May 3rd, 2015 at 18:11
It is being used in a racist way rather than using the word “n****r”. Click on the link that’s provided and listen to what Soledad has to say. But the meanings of words to evolve and the words “riot” and now the word “thug” has evolved whether you like it or not you’re going to have to accept it my friend. I can only hope you click on the link and listen to her.
robert May 3rd, 2015 at 21:15
…“I think there’s violent protesters, there’s drunk protesters, angry protesters,” she said.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
cant say im going that way ? without a breath test or a psychology exam to see what they are thinking.
i guess this means your entitled to your opinions
John Tarter May 3rd, 2015 at 21:24
It is not racial code, you libs and the race baiters are making it one. Thugs can be of any ethnicity or national origin, it’s not the color of the person but the action of the person that is the determining factor. What should be call them then, “Spontaneous flame starters”, or “Independent movers of store merchandise”? Hey, would miscreant or criminal be too harsh too? It just never ends with liberal political correctness absurdity.
whatthe46 May 3rd, 2015 at 21:35
i just watched the may day protest in seattle and they are rioting and being called “rioters” or “protesters” not anything other than that. no where in the article are they being referred to as “thugs” oh yeah, their white. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/11/white-people-rioting-for-no-reason.html
and this, yeah, you’ll never hear faux spews call them thugs or even report on it.
EmmanuelKShannon May 4th, 2015 at 03:05
When it is being used to describe peaceful protesters as well as rioters, when it’s being used to describe people who were trying to survive just like everyone else in Katrina, when it’s used to describe anyone because the way they dress is ‘urban” I think there’s a little something more there buddy.
William May 4th, 2015 at 07:09
“It is not racial code, you libs and the race baiters are making it one”
says the guy who wrote this.
“Its also funny how those same people have no problem
getting to a government office somewhere to apply for food stamps, welfare, or
their social security benefits”
But tell me, why is it that black citizens are unable to
comply with the law?
http://www.alan.com/2013/08/13/92-year-old-who-faced-literacy-tests-sues-north-carolina-on-voter-id/
Hey Skippy
Hypocrite much?
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 07:16
Dear John, we can always count on you to say something umm, stupid since you refuse to keep up with the times.
Sorry John, I’m going to have to give up on you. :)
rg9rts May 4th, 2015 at 03:14
Haven’t seen her in years and she is just as stupid as ever
rg9rts May 4th, 2015 at 03:17
Anyone remember when Steve Allen made bird a dirty word??
Hirightnow May 4th, 2015 at 08:08
You said the same thing 8 months ago on alternet…
rg9rts May 4th, 2015 at 11:37
So I got kicked off there and this is a new audience
illinoisboy1977 May 4th, 2015 at 10:46
Since when is Soledad O’Brien the authority on journalistic integrity? I love how some people can be so presumptuous as to tell you how to act and what you may, or may not, say. I’d love for someone to tell me, to my face, what I’m “not allowed” to say. Then, I could look him/her in the eye, when I tell them to kiss my @$$.
burqa May 8th, 2015 at 00:05
Good call.
She’s not entitled to an opinion.
Our country would be better off if we banned all opinions someone disagrees with.
Pilotshark May 4th, 2015 at 12:35
to bad for CNN to lose you, as you seem to be the only one who never step back and always asked the correct follow ups.
we need more of you, come back to main stream.
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 13:08
She makes them uncomfortable.
Ormond Otvos May 4th, 2015 at 13:37
Words have meanings, and they change slowly, if at all. Thug means vicious criminal, not black, white, brown, red or yellow.
Cliven Bundy was surrounded by thugs. I think all of them were white.
allison1050 May 4th, 2015 at 14:37
You need to get current sweetie. Do you believe that the word gay means what it did 50 years ago? Bundy is/was surrounded by ignorant, unemployed dolts who are free loading from him and he himself is free (welfare queen) loading from the government
burqa May 8th, 2015 at 00:02
What do you expect from someone named after a place where they put thugs behind bars?