New York Towns Consider Seceding To Pennsylvania
Most secession movements in New York state are fueled by the cultural differences between the big city and less crowded upstate areas closer in spirit to New England or the Midwest: Consider that Buffalo is closer to Cleveland than Manhattan.
Town of Conklin Supervisor Jim Finch said he mentioned secession jokingly the day the fracking ban was announced, after a reporter asked him what they would do next. But he said a recent constituent survey sent out by state Sen. Thomas Libous that included a question about seceding to Pennsylvania “popped the question right to the top.”
Finch is an avuncular 76-year-old who hardly seems like the type to lead an escape from New York — not in the least because of all the pictures of New York Yankees’ greats hanging on his office wall. He cheerfully concedes that a redrawing of the state line down the road from his office — settled since 1786 — will not happen.
But a message has been sent.
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Copyright 2015 Liberaland
21 responses to New York Towns Consider Seceding To Pennsylvania
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jstsmlbrlcnsrvtvguy March 1st, 2015 at 09:50
Wonder if Pennsylvania even wants ’em? Maybe they secretly initiated this and are looking to take over parts of New York (maybe other states too) with natural resources to exploit. Or maybe the frackers themselves, just looking for a little lebensraum, are behind this.
When this first popped up here… the t-shirts and signs of the protesters made me think it was an energy-industry sponsored astro-turf movement… (picture looks to have been taken back when it was warmer… probably not in NY)
http://www.alan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/jbjpm3ttdjltliqrftnm-620×347.jpg
rg9rts March 1st, 2015 at 10:14
Maybe they should read the constitution first…although, knowing the woodchucks up state, I have my doubts that they can do that
Carla Akins March 1st, 2015 at 12:22
Change is hard. Tobacco farmers and coal mine worker should already be a part of our past like steam engine conductors. There is no future in any petroleum type fuel, we need to be working hard to find workable self-sustaining alternates and expanding jobs in those areas. The continued struggle to hang on to an outmoded process is ill-conceived and driven by nostalgia, not well thought out decision making.
oldfart March 1st, 2015 at 12:56
they are all jealous because all those land owners in PA., who sold their souls
and land rights to the gas/oil companies are now out of debt…also unfortunately,
some of them can no longer smoke while doing their dishes or taking a shower.
the upside is they can now afford lots of bottled water…
Robert M. Snyder March 1st, 2015 at 15:01
I live in PA. For many months, I have been seeing TV ads for a program called StartUp NY. If you create a new business or move your business to NY from another state, you pay no taxes for ten years. This sounds like a good idea, but how would you feel if you were a small business owner making a meager profit while paying the regular tax rates for the past twenty years. Suddenly, some new guy opens a shop across the street building the same types of products as you, but he pays no taxes for ten years.
NY has problems. Especially rural NY. It is not hard to understand why these rural NY towns might feel as though they are not being well-served by NY state government. First they were told “no fracking”. Now they are being told “You keep paying your taxes while we let some out-of-staters compete with you tax-free”.
These towns won’t secede, but the children who are growing up in these towns will not stay there after college. They will move to Boston, NYC, Philly, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, DC, or elsewhere. So in effect, the youth will gradually “secede”.
fancypants March 1st, 2015 at 18:17
start up NY was bound to crash and burn from its conception
I don’t see any other state ( besides texas ) that’s anywhere near this promise to business owners
Robert M. Snyder March 1st, 2015 at 19:34
Newly-elected Democratic governor Tom Wolf is seeking to lower PA’s corporate tax rate from 9.99% (second highest in the nation) to 4.99%. I’ve been operating my small business as a sole proprietorship for fifteen years. I have recently started to think about incorporation because I would like the business to survive after my retirement, and also for liability reasons. The 9.99% rate was a concern. 4.99% looks a lot better. Keep in mind that this is the rate the business pays on its profits. Any money I pay myself as a salary would be taxed (again) at the personal rate.
I am not sure why Wolf has proposed this lowering of the tax. Perhaps he is concerned about PA businesses moving to NY to take advantage of Startup NY? Personally, I wouldn’t be tempted. But if I lived close to the NY border, Startup NY might be tempting.
Obewon March 1st, 2015 at 19:54
Corporate wages are untaxed deductible expenses Vs “Any money I pay myself as a salary would be taxed (again) at the personal rate.”-Nope.
Robert M. Snyder March 1st, 2015 at 20:20
“Corporate wages are untaxed deductible expenses Vs “Any money I pay myself as a salary would be taxed (again) at the personal rate.”-Nope.”
You are correct. I am still getting used to this corporate thing. Thanks for correcting my mistake.
fancypants March 1st, 2015 at 19:58
as you previously stated the start up ny doesn’t apply to long standing companies so how is this going to improve things in any state ?
as I said its a failure from its debut
Robert M. Snyder March 1st, 2015 at 20:24
It’s a gimmick. My rural community attracted a high-end bicycle manufacturer to open a plant here about 20 years ago by giving them tax-free status. When the tax breaks expired, they promptly moved to another community that offered similar enticements. Any business that is capable of packing up and moving to NY today will be capable of packing up and moving elsewhere when the ten-year tax breaks expire.
fancypants March 1st, 2015 at 20:35
Back in the old neighborhood ( home of Motorola ) our gov allowed this company to start farming out their work to other countries and the next thing you know its nation wide. That’s whats killing business and jobs here. The gov gave them the ability to use other countries for manufacturing ,sales and white collar jobs and the next thing you know we look around and say ” what happened ” chances are Your bicycle manufacturing company took a hard look over seas too.
Robert M. Snyder March 1st, 2015 at 21:16
I have mixed emotions about outsourcing. I have recently read a couple of articles about Mexico’s burgeoning middle class. Apparently American-made goods are a status symbol for middle-class Mexicans. If you watch only American media, you might get the impression that the entire country of Mexico is one big slum. But it isn’t so. As the Mexican economy improves, fewer people will need to leave their families and travel to the US to find work. That seems like a win-win. I realize it isn’t that simple.
For many years, I have tried to buy products from wealthy nations (Japan, Europe, US, Canada, Australia) because it seems like a level playing field. However, I am beginning to question whether this might be short-sighted.
Here’s a recent NY Times article that may interest you:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/19/world/americas/in-the-middle-of-mexico-a-middle-class-is-rising.html?_r=0
fancypants March 2nd, 2015 at 22:37
I know a corporation near my home that pulled their work out of mexico because the mexicans cant weld heavy machinery worth a crap. Ive also noticed that if it wasn’t for the usa sending so many jobs down to mexico you would see a lot of slums because their government hardly ever create jobs. A few years back a native Mexican told me that its run very similar to Cubans government where there are no set wages Its up to the business to determine what you are paid.
Robert M. Snyder March 2nd, 2015 at 23:02
I hear you. As I said, I have mixed feelings about outsourcing.
I have become acquainted with a Guatemalan family who operate a pizza shop close to my home. They work long hours and I don’t think their business is very lucrative. The one woman’s elderly father is basically a prisoner in his own apartment because he is nearly blind, nearly deaf, and doesn’t speak English. One day he walked into the hallway and when his door closed behind him, it was locked and he didn’t have his key. Fortunately someone helped him, but the poor man is pretty helpless in this rural town where almost nobody is fluent in Spanish.
My point is that I like this Guatemalan family. They are easy to like. And I am glad that they choose to live in my town. But we can’t possibly allow the entire population of Guatemala (much less Mexico!) to move to America. The only real solution is for conditions to improve in Guatemala, Honduras, and Mexico.
I am not optimistic about programs that seek to impose an American solution on another country. But when another country is beginning to make reforms, I think we might be able to help things along by purchasing products made in that country and opening factories there if invited.
Japanese and German carmakers have opened manufacturing plants in the US because Americans are concerned about creating jobs here at home. So it is understandable that Mexicans might feel the same way about American companies. It is my understanding that in order to sell cars in China a company has to open a factory there.
It’s too bad that Arab countries don’t offer a wider array of products and services. If they did, we would have a lot more people and companies of all sizes involved in commercial interactions, which lead to social interactions, which lead to stability.
With regard to your point about Mexicans not being able to weld worth a crap…I would just point out that when I was a kid the phrase “Jap junk” was commonly used and probably well-deserved. But Japanese engineering and manufacturing are now world class. It could happen in Mexico, and I for one would love to see it.
fancypants March 3rd, 2015 at 00:05
As I previously said The company owners pay you what they think your worth . It even points this out in the link you posted above and I don’t see mexico competing with japan anytime soon because of their business and education practices unfortunately they rely on everyone else to provide the jobs for them which is very sad because most of the countries you mentioned are the exact opposite
tracey marie March 1st, 2015 at 21:25
texas and wisconsin do the same thing, do you also feel it is wrong for them to do this?
Robert M. Snyder March 1st, 2015 at 22:04
I believe that all businesses in a given sector should compete on a level playing field. If Susan has been operating a software consulting business for twenty years and dutifully paying her taxes, it is unfair for the state to entice Jane to come into the state and set up a new software consulting business under a different set of rules than the ones than Susan has been playing by all along. If a state wants to attract businesses, they should do something like PA Gov Tom Wolf has proposed, namely lowering the tax burden for ALL businesses, both existing and new. That way everyone competes (within the state) on a level playing field.
I am not familiar with the tax laws of TX and WI, but if they treat new businesses differently than existing businesses, then I would oppose that aspect of their laws.
tracey marie March 1st, 2015 at 22:32
again, texas and Wi are doing this, do you have an issue with red states that do it?
Robert M. Snyder March 1st, 2015 at 23:46
Yes. I started my business in 1995. It’s been a real struggle at times. I might grumble about my taxes, but I always pay them. In fact I just paid $77 in “use tax” to PA. That’s when you buy something online and out-of-state vendor doesn’t charge sales tax. In PA we are expected to report all such purchases and pay 6% “use tax”. I play by the rules and pay the required taxes, and I have been doing so for twenty years. If somebody else comes in from another state and opens a business that competes with mine, and they get a ten-year tax holiday, I am going to be FURIOUS. And I don’t care whether the governor is Republican or Democrat. Red/Blue – it doesn’t matter to me. It’s a slap in the face to the loyal business owners who have been paying their fair share of taxes all along.
tracey marie March 1st, 2015 at 21:24
Do these morons really believe they can just take one states lands and assets and give them to another because they are having a temper tantrum, Really?!