Christian Rock Star Comes Out: ‘I’m Gay. God Loves Me Just The Way I Am’
Vicky Beeching, 35, of the Christian rock scene, is one of the most successful artists in US megachurches and now one of the most sought-after religious commentators in Britain
“I’m gay,” she said in an interview with The Independent.
“What Jesus taught was a radical message of welcome and inclusion and love. I feel certain God loves me just the way I am, and I have a huge sense of calling to communicate that to young people,” she said. “When I think of myself at 13, sobbing into that carpet, I just want to help anyone in that situation to not have to go through what I did, to show that instead, you can be yourself – a person of integrity.”
In an interview with Religious News Service, Beeching said, “All I want to do is play whatever small part I can to help people rethink their beliefs around sexuality; to stir people to reexamine doctrines that need a second look. I don’t see myself as a “liberal” as I value the Bible highly and hold to many of the same views that evangelical Christians do. ” She added “I just think we’ve misinterpreted the Scriptures that talk about sexuality – as many people did with the Bible passages about women in leadership.”
An interesting remark in the comment thread under The Independent’s article reads in part, “This lady is not a Christian. God does not love her and commands her to repent or she will perish….”
If the commenter is indeed a Christian, then he knows that God loves all of his children.
H/T: My BFF @ComgenKDT with thanks.
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By: Anomaly100
248 responses to Christian Rock Star Comes Out: ‘I’m Gay. God Loves Me Just The Way I Am’
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iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 10:21
Scripture declares that homosexuality is a sin, which is
contrary to God’s intention in creating man and woman. Sinful resistance to the
revealed will of God is a factor in this sin. People may become slaves to this
sin (Romans 1:18-31, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10).
Many factors contribute to individual acts of sin: the
sinful nature we are born with, the weaknesses of our bodies, evil influences
in our environment, temptations and encouragement from other sinners, and our
own sinful choice join together to lead us into sin. All of these factors
contribute to homosexual sin. The proportionate role of these various factors
may vary from case to case.
We must warn the impenitent that homosexuality, like all
sins, excludes people from eternal life (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). The church,
therefore, must not, bless same-sex marriages or unions, since these are
contrary to the will of God. The church must not place into nor retain in the
public ministry of the Word people who defend, condone, or persist in words or
actions that are contrary to God’s law.
We are happy to assure the repentant who are struggling
against this sin that they have complete forgiveness through the blood of
Christ. When Christ died for all of the sins of the whole world, he gained
forgiveness for homosexual deeds, for homosexual desires, and for the inborn
sinful nature that produces these sins (1 Corinthians 6:11).
We should sympathize with all who are struggling against
this sin, remembering that we too have “pet sins” that may have a
strong hold on us. We warn against a “selective morality” that
harshly condemns homosexuality or other sins that we observe in others while
regarding those sins which are present in our own lives more lightly (Matthew
7:1-5). We should be impartial and unbiased in warning against all sins.
We all look forward to the resurrection of the body. Then
all the weaknesses of body and soul which now lead us into sin will disappear
forever. Then all of us will be able to serve God perfectly and purely in
everything we do.
Some advocates of legal and religious tolerance of homosexuality claim that
homosexuality has a genetic cause. Some reports claim that some homosexual men
share a particular pattern in the X sex-chromosome that they received from
their mother. Other researchers have claimed the existence of other types of
biological similarities between homosexual men. These researchers acknowledge
that their discoveries cannot account for all homosexuality and may merely be
associated with homosexuality rather than being a direct cause of it. Most
researchers conclude that the origins of homosexuality are complex and varied
and may never be fully understood.
How should we evaluate such claims in the light of the
biblical teaching of sin? Is homosexuality a free choice or an inborn tendency?
Like many such either-or questions, this question poses a
false dilemma. Every sin is both a choice of the will and the expression of an
inborn tendency to sin. Our sinful will is guilty of consent whenever we sin in
thought, word, or deed. As a result of our sinful nature we take pleasure in
our sins and defend them. This universal tendency is apparent also in the
efforts of gay rights activists to condone their homosexuality and to deny that
anything is wrong with it.
How should Christians respond to campaigns to pass laws
either protecting homosexuality as a civil right or laws restricting it? Are
opposing laws that grant status of homosexuality as a civil right or supporting
laws that restrict homosexual practice an attempt to force our religion on
others by means of the law?
We must distinguish between our duties as members of the
church and our duties as citizens, though the first may have an effect on how
we carry out the second.
Our Christian duty toward homosexuals (and toward the
sexually immoral, thieves, swindlers, murderers, slanderers, and drunkards, and
any violators of God’s will) is clear—to confront the impenitent with God’s
law, which condemns their sin, and to comfort the penitent with the gospel,
which offers forgiveness.
As good neighbors and citizens, our duty is not to pressure
people to accept and practice our religious beliefs, but to promote laws that
protect individuals and society from harm. If reason, evidence, and the natural
knowledge of God’s law, which remains in people even after the Fall, all
testify that stealing, murder, drug abuse, sexual immorality, abortion, and
homosexuality or condoning of same sex marriage are harmful to individuals or
to society, we as citizens should work for laws that oppose those evils. We do
this not to force our religious beliefs on others, but rather to work together
with other people who share a natural knowledge of God’s law in order to
protect society from actions that are harmful to society. The fact that stealing
is forbidden by the Seventh Commandment and murder by the Fifth Commandment
does not mean that we as Christians cannot support laws against stealing or
murder. The recognition that these acts are wrong and harmful is not peculiar
to Lutheranism nor to Christianity. It is based on a natural knowledge of God’s
law and on experience. This knowledge, therefore, is common to all people,
except where sinners have suppressed this knowledge. (Read Romans 1:18-32.)
As Christian citizens we should work for laws that will
protect society from the harmful consequences of sin. As citizens we promote
such laws on the basis of reason and natural knowledge of the law. If the state
tolerates moral evils, which violate God’s law, we will continue to oppose them
on the basis of God’s Word.
As a member of the church my goal is to win people’s hearts
and guide their lives by God’s Word. As a citizen my goal is to regulate
people’s conduct so they do not harm themselves or others. Many of the moral
principles of God’s law are relevant to both goals and may be used in both
spheres, but for different purposes. As a member of the church I use all of
God’s law as a mirror, a curb, and a rule. As a citizen I use parts of God’s
law as a curb against conduct that reason and natural knowledge of the law
recognize as harmful to society.
Although the consent of our sinful will is present in every
sin, it is also true that we are born as slaves of sin. We may also yield to a
particular sin so often that we no longer control the sin, but the sin controls
us. We may find ourselves yielding to sin even when we don’t want to.
Sin infects both our body and our soul. The body we now have
is not the perfect body that God created for Adam and Eve. It has been
contaminated by the effects of sin. There is no reason to maintain that the
specific effects of sin have been identical in each one of us or that we are
all equally susceptible to every sin. Our individual degree of susceptibility
to some specific sins may be due in part to differences in our bodies. Abuse of
alcohol and a hot temper are just two examples of sins that may be affected by
the chemistry of our bodies. Few would deny that the pressure to sexual sin is
greater at 18 than it is at 8 or at 88 and that a primary reason for this is
the changing chemistry of our bodies. It may well be that a person’s
susceptibility to homosexuality or to certain other sins depends in part on
bodily differences.
Even though the weakness of our own body may be one factor
that leads us to sin, God holds us responsible for all of our sins, even those
sins that enslave us and those sins that we are not aware of. We need God’s
forgiveness even for those sinful desires that we resist and do not act upon.
These desires too are sin. (Read Romans 7 for a treatment of slavery to sin.)
Christ’s forgiveness covers every form of every sin for the repentant.
OldLefty August 17th, 2014 at 10:39
That’s nice for the believers.
There is a reason why we don’t govern ourselves by the Bible, the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 11:21
Right. It’s called moral relativism. But your pithy remark would shed no light on your reasons for unbelief. The Koran says kill the infidel. The Bible says love each other. The Bhagavad Gita says hey man, it’s all cool. The unbeliever, such as yourself, has no code or compass, no rock to stand on–only shifting sands as the cultural tides move in and out, swallowing you into a sea of confusion. You are led only by an inner muse and nihilism in the form of “coexist” bumper stickers. Yet, the hard choice–to know God–is not something you can take comfort in as you justify sin and the corruption of the heart. This woman is an unfortunate product of an increasingly hedonistic world, as you must be to argue for relativism.
Carla Akins August 17th, 2014 at 11:35
Whoa, I beg to differ. Simply because I do not believe in your god does not mean I have no moral compass. People found a way to build civilizations and social order through morality long before Christianity came along.
Believe as you choose, that is your right and I will fight for your choice to do so. You do not get to judge my choices or force yours onto others and into law. We have a Constitution that specifically forbids it.
Morality and organized religion is an oxymoron.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 11:57
Says the moral relativist with no biblical training, who condemns what she knows nothing about.
Carla Akins August 17th, 2014 at 12:04
Wow, assume much? I was raised Baptist and continued to practice my faith until my 40’s. Funny, I’m willing to fight to allow you to embrace your choices, but you can’t find it within your self to allow yourself to be tolerant of mine.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 12:12
I “tolerate” your views, to use a popular relativist term. I also reject them, as you do mine (without much exposition in the form of logical argument). To say you were raised Baptist proves nothing about your faith, conviction or understanding of Baptist teachings. You’re willing to fight to allow me to embrace my choices? Then defend them. I don’t need you to tell me I have a right to express my dissent to the heresy posted here. My views have value equal to any others, unless you wish to revoke your tolerance for my free speech and discriminate against me on the basis of religion.
Carla Akins August 17th, 2014 at 12:27
Yet everyone here has been civil in their debate with you but you have called others toddler and hypocrite – not very Christian-like behavior based on my recall of the King James bible. You are welcome to post here ( a private site) as long as you remain civil but I am done with our conversation.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 16:47
I think I have been more than civil. I have also made my case with solid scriptural argument. The hypocrite claim is baseless and apparently misses the point that Christ called the Pharisees hypocrites. “But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?” Matthew 22:18. “He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.'” Mark 7:6. There are more examples but that suffices to make my point. As for the word “toddler,” I think you may be grasping at straws and overly sensitive. I could have said childish. What’s the difference? As for how others have been civil, you’ve cherry-picked. As for how “tolerant” you are by closing down this thread, *res ipsa loquitur*.
I will make my point simple. Homosexuality is a sin. Unrepentant sinners do not inherit the Kingdom of God. Unbelievers are moral relativists. A Christian who does not repent her sins, but celebrates them, is not a Christian.
Since you are not a practicing Christian, and do not argue from scripture but from emotional and cultural talking points (can’t we all just get along??), you have yet to make a valid case in support of this lesbian singer. But I appreciate your fragile “tolerance” for my viewpoint and will miss having an opportunity to educate you more.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 18:24
Voices of the Tolerant:
Carla Akins • a day ago
I had heard: Religion is like a penis, it’s fine to have one and be proud of it, but don’t take it out and wave it around or shove it down my children’s throat.
Carla, as Patton said to Rommel, I’ve read your book. A vulgar, anti-religious bigot. And an intolerant hypocrite.
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 23:12
Our culture was steeped in Christian principles. If every Bible in the United States was destroyed, it could be re-created by writers and text books. That’s why we don’t like murder or lying or stealing. Most of our laws originated with the Ten Commandments. That’s why a Christian nation put Moses with the Ten Commandments on the Supreme Court building.
Carla Akins September 11th, 2014 at 05:19
All man-made religions have a list of commandments and a similar moral mandates bu that does not require one to be religious to be moral.
Good people, moral, ethical moral people don’t believe murder or stealing – the bible and this country also endorsed slavery and misogyny along with other “bad” behavior – it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t evolve and change this behavior.
But most importantly the first amendment allows for freedom from religion, as well as a religion of our choice and the government recognizes many religions that our forefathers never dreamed of – NONE of which should be included or endorsed by our government in public entities.
OldLefty August 17th, 2014 at 11:42
The Koran says kill the infidel.
______
So does the Bible.
The Bhagavad Gita does NOT say hey man, it’s all cool, but we don’t need clergy to tell us what is or is not “all cool”.
YOU have NO idea what I am led by.
I might say that YOU are led by the same “inner muse and nihilism” that leads ALL zealots, especially those in the Muslim world today.
It is the certainty the my voodoo is good, your voodoo is bad that presents the greatest danger.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 16:54
That’s moral relativism talk. Learn something old Leftist:
Moral relativism is a philosophy that asserts there is no global, absolute moral law that applies to all people, for all time, and in all places. Instead of an objective moral law, it espouses a qualified view where morals are concerned, especially in the areas of individual moral practice where personal and situational encounters supposedly dictate the correct moral position.
Summing up the relative moral philosophy, Friedrich Nietzsche wrote, “You have your way, I have my way. As for the right way, it does not exist.”
In modern times, the espousal of moral relativism has been closely linked to the theory of evolution. The argument is, in the same way that humanity has evolved from lesser to greater biological organisms, the same process is in play in the area of morals and ethics. Therefore, all that can be ascertained at present (and forever) is that there is no absolute or fixed certainty in the area of morality.
Following this argument to its logical conclusion causes consternation among many, even those who espouse moral relativism. Paul Kurtz, in the book The Humanist Alternative, sums up the end result this way: “If man is a product of evolution, one species among others, in a universe without purpose, then man’s option is to live for himself”.
A grand example of this philosophy in action can be seen in the 2007-2008 meltdown that occurred in the American financial and banking industry. Those who taught relative morality in their philosophy and business ethics college courses proceeded to live out those teachings on Wall Street and in other corporate avenues, taking risks, not representing the truth properly, seeking monetary gain, etc, with the outcome being devastating for those who were on the receiving end of their relative (and financial) morality.
Oddly enough, many who believed in relative morality at that time were outraged and absolutely sure that those who engaged in deceptive business practices ought to be punished for their unethical moral behavior. This type of reaction speaks loudly to an important truth: moral relativists have a rather dim view of moral relativism when it negatively effects them.
Let the moral relativist be lied to, be the victim of false advertising, or of a crime and he instantly becomes a moral absolutist. A person’s reaction to what he considers unfair ethical treatment always betrays his true feelings on the matter of relative vs. objective moral laws….when things go wrong for him.
The problem for the moral relativist (who is most times a secular humanist that rejects God) is they have no good answer to the two-part question: Is there anything wrong with an action and, if so, why? Appealing to the relative whims of society or personal preferences doesn’t provide satisfying answers. A better response to the question necessitates that an individual have: (1) an unchanging standard he can turn to, and (2) an absolute authority by which proper moral obligation and be defended. Without these, morals/ethics simply becomes emotionally based preferences. Rape, for example, can never be deemed wrong; the strongest statement that can be made about rape is “I don’t like it.”
Three options for moral basis
The only options available to the secular humanist where a standard and authority are concerned are: (1) the natural universe; (2) culture; (3) the individual.
The natural universe doesn’t work since no one has even closesly explained how matter, atoms, chemicals, and electricity produce proper moral truths from which moral behavior is rightly derived. Culture doesn’t help as there are many cultures throughout the world, all with differing moral standards and practices; there is no way to ascertain which culture is ‘correct’ — if at all. Culture merely displays what “is” with respect to morality, and even the famous skeptic and antagonist of religion David Hume stated that humanity cannot derive an “ought” from an “is” where morals are concerned. Lastly, if each individual is used as a standard/authority for morals, the problem becomes one of imposing personal preferences on others and asking whose moral opinion is right?
Seeing this dilemma, some moral relativists try to say that science can be used to dictate ethics, but even secular scientists admit that science is a descriptive discipline (explanation) and not a prescriptive one (obligation). In addition, its empirical methods are impotent to answer such moral questions such as if the Nazi’s were evil or not, or is murder really morally wrong, or why is rape morally reprehensible? Einstein sums up the correct position in this matter when he said, “You are right in speaking of the moral foundations of science, but you cannot turn round and speak of the scientific foundations of morality.”
In the end, the moral relativist has no satisfying answer in his/her attempt to respond to the question of if there is anything wrong with anything, and why, outside of his opinion. There is no standard to turn to and no authority to recognize and respect.
The Christian Worldview
In contrast to the moral relativist whose worldview is secular humanism, the Christian worldview provides a solid standard and authority that can be confidently referenced and followed. The Creator God, who has revealed Himself in His Word is both the standard and authority for morals. From God’s nature comes pure good that serves as the straight line by which all crooked lines can be corrected.
God’s image has been impressed upon humanity (cf. Gen. 1:26-27) so that human beings instinctively know God’s moral law and what is right and wrong (cf. Rom. 2:14-15). People don’t have to believe in God to know His moral law, but in denying Him, they lose the ability to ground an objective moral law in something that transcends the physical universe. Without that transcendent God, as Dostoevsky famously observed, everything is permissible.
The tragic truth for the moral relativist is this: when you hold God’s funeral and bury His moral law along with Him, something will take His place. That something will be an individual or group of individuals who take power and, in authoritarian fashion, impose their own moral framework on everyone else. The world has already seen such things in the regimes of Stalin and Pol Pot.
The far better course of action is to thankfully acknowledge God as the true source of good and His objective moral law, which God established only for the well being of His creation.
OldLefty August 17th, 2014 at 18:51
I’m not impressed with your babbling, Rightist.
As Saul Alinsky said, “One of the most important things in life is
what Judge Learned Hand described as ‘that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you’re right.’
If you don’t have that, if you think you’ve got an inside track
to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually
constipated. The greatest crimes in history have been perpetrated by such
religious and political and racial fanatics, from the persecutions of the Inquisition on down to the Communist purges and Nazi genocide. “
You don’t have any more claim on morality than anyone else.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 18:56
Never said I did. Christ does, and I follow him, not your gods Alinksy and Hand, both of whom I have read and understand all too well to be old Leftists/socialists like yourself. Why do you care about this Lesbian singer? Because she offends Christ with her brazen attempt to conflate her relativist values with Christ’s teachings? Is that why you come to her defense? It certainly isn’t because you care about the vitality of the revealed Word.
OldLefty August 17th, 2014 at 19:00
My Gods???
You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you?
You don’t know what offends Christ.
Perhaps your phony sanctimony offends Christ.
But again, I think you are doing schtick.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 19:09
I’ve laid out facts and quoted scripture, but that doesn’t impress someone with a hardened viewpoint. Here’ my “schtick” old Leftist: Homosexuality is a deviant form of sexual behavior. It is also a sin, says the Lord. Celebrating it in the name of Christ is a sin to be condemned. The bunch of you on this left-leaning string don’t want to follow Christ; you want to follow your instinct for something, I don’t know what, compassion? Why compassion? Do you also endorse pedophilia? Polygamy? Rape? Those are sexual choices people make. Where do you draw the line? Anywhere you draw it that isn’t Biblically condemned is a false relativist subjective line. And your false incredulity is bluster, not argument.
OldLefty August 17th, 2014 at 19:36
I’ve laid out facts and quoted scripture,
______
You have quoted a religious book.
So do the Muslims, Hindus and others.
You seem to be more like the pharisees that Jesus warned about.
And you don’t get to decide what is what is moral for everybody else.
But you are amusing.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 19:47
You obviously have never studied comparative religions. But I’ve lost interest debating you. The living Christ that promises eternal salvation by offering his grace is different from the Allah, who promises virgins in heaven and rewards suicide bombers and terrorists. No, son, I’m not a Pharisee, who rejected the message of peace Christ brought to the world. I’m a Christian. And, to be perfectly candid, you’re a bigot.
OldLefty August 17th, 2014 at 19:51
Oh please spare me.
Sorry, but you sound more like a sanctimonious pharisee than a (humble???) follower of Jesus Christ.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 20:15
That the best you’ve got? Pointless ad hominem? I expected
nothing less.
OldLefty August 17th, 2014 at 20:17
Why?
Isn’t that all YOU’VE got?
Are we supposed to listen to sanctimonious lectures and not call it out?
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 22:43
I’m calling it out. Stop being sanctimonious.
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 23:07
Christians don’t doubt that they are wrong. We know we are. That’s why we chose to follow Jesus and not saul alinsky.
OldLefty September 26th, 2014 at 08:50
Christians don’t doubt that they are wrong. We know we are. That’s why we chose to follow Jesus and not saul alinsky.
_______
The problem that many of us have with many “Christians” is that they don’t seem to know anymore about Jesus than they know about Saul Alinsky.
Paulita Gilberto September 26th, 2014 at 13:05
I’ve played Bible trivia at Church events and am astounded by how little people know. Even the Pastors, sometimes. That is our lifeline and many people will be the ones to whom Jesus will say,
“I never knew you.” Unless he repented on his death bed, they may spend eternity with Saul Alinsky. The more I learn, the more I know I don’t know but just bantering around with people leads me to seek more deeply.
OldLefty September 26th, 2014 at 14:56
Unless he repented on his death bed, they may spend eternity with Saul Alinsky.
_______
In heaven?
Saul Alinsky is as likely to go there as anyone.
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 23:06
Jesus never says to kill the infidel. He says to pray for them and live a life that points the non-believer to Him.
veggiedude August 17th, 2014 at 14:46
It also advocates slavery, stoning people for adultery and having pedofile behavior.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 16:59
Yeah, I see alot of that going on in the Christian community. But you have fallen for one of the oldest arguments of non-believers, the misinterpretation of scripture. Please cite to where Jesus Christ advocated these things. The slavery example won’t work. The master-slave relationship was the equivalent of the master-servant or government-people concepts. So don’t sling your nonsense about that from your “literal” interpretation of scripture you no doubt condemn as being never literal. You people really have such hardened hearts, it’s impossible to know what you think life is ultimately about. Perhaps there will be a deathbed conversion.
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 19:45
I don’t have a hard heart. I have an intellect and it tells me religion is shit
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 19:53
You make a real intellectual point Cecilia.Said like an angry, vulgar Leftist hatemonger.
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 20:03
can’t stand it when people don’t get intimidated by your religious bullying??
awww, don’t cry
just learn to live with it because this isn’t the dark ages and you can’t kill non-believers with impunity any more
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 20:16
Isn’t it your feeding time?
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 20:50
no, we went out for lunch earlier with my mother and friend. Thanks for asking
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 20:53
Well, back to your cave then.
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 20:59
unlike you I live in a very nice comfortable home.
Thanks for your concern
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 21:13
I didn’t realize you have been to my home. Is there something
you didn’t like about it? I find it very comfortable.
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 21:58
no thanks. My home is way more comfortable. It’s got everything I want in it – family, my stuff, peace and quiet, no morons, safe neighborhood, nice neighbors.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 22:42
Happy for that.
Rusty Shackleford August 20th, 2014 at 05:00
Where did Jesus condemn gay people? You quoted Paul.
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 23:03
Jesus never condemned anyone. He came into the world to save sinners, not condemn them. But He did tell Mary Magdelene to “Go and sin no more.” We condemn ourselves by denying that God is God and we are not.
Rusty Shackleford September 11th, 2014 at 00:27
Where did I claim to be a god?
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 19:44
being gay is a “sin” like having blue eyes is a “sin”
all this religious bs is useless and inhuman
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 19:54
I could tell you where to go, but that’s already been written in the book of life.
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 20:06
except there’s no such place as hell – except in your own sad and pathetic useless life.
and fortunately, I’m living MY life and it’s FABULOUS!
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 20:31
It’s fabulous now. That’s the price of losing eternal life, which, BTW, is actually fabulous beyond imagination. Goodnight Cecilia. Enjoy it while you are able. Don’t think about old age, cancer, Alzheimer’s, divorce, or missing out on the afterlife. It’s all good.
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 20:57
there’s no evidence for any sort of “after life” so there’s no reason for me to worry about it.
plus, the reason I have such a FABULOUS life (and it’s been that way for many many decades now) is because I work hard. I worked hard at my career and received awards.
I worked with some really incredibly talented people.
even when things were very rough, the feeling of accomplishment you get when you overcome those tough moments is so worth it – I wouldn’t want it any other way.
I EARNED my happiness. I pulled myself up by my bootstraps and EARNED it all, baby!
I didn’t need an imaginary friend. I completely acknowledge that my success was because of my family and their sacrifices, but the work was all me.
And my work will live after me. THAT is my immortality. My body will be long dead while people still view my work. Knowing that just fills me with joy like you can’t imagine.
So go ahead and wallow in your guilt and misery because I have it all.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 21:11
Aw C, there’s no need to cry. You have a great life. You
should have no need to even have to debate me. But I sense you are not as satisfied as you say you are. In fact, to me, you sound unhappy, and feeling as though you need to justify your unbelief. But you don’t. Not with me or anyone
else. If you are secure in it, just ignore me and those like me.
I too have a “fabulous” life. But it is because I love the
Lord Jesus and He gives me all that I need. And I mean it. For 50 years, I loved the material world. I loved sex, drugs and rock and roll. Literally. But I was a child. An unhappy one. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the
ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope and
love. But the greatest of these is love.
That is the teaching you reject. 1 Corinthians 13. That is
the proposition you call mindless. You think you are “intellectual.” I think you are delusional. Uninformed. Uneducated. Lost. Feeling hopeless.
Your angry rejection of what I have to say is not driven by
intellect, but by hatred. For what exactly? Sanctimony? That’s just a word. I’m not perfect. I’m not righteous. I have only the promise of eternal life because I believe that God gave me a book, actually several books, collectively called
the Bible, that explains how I can be saved from my imperfect body, mind and soul. I pray you will have the patience and wisdom to examine what Christian belief is all about. And beware that Christianity is not monolithic. But coming
to Christ is the first step to true happiness. Not material happiness, which can never fully satisfy you.
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 21:56
I’ve never done drugs.
In fact there’s tons of stuff I’ve never done that sad little people like you have gone and done. And now you feel guilty for doing it all.
That’s your problem buddy and i refuse to accept your guilt and self hatred.
I stayed focused on developing my talents and making my life worth while. You were out wasting your time with drugs and partying. What you should do is just own your decisions. All that drugging and being drunk was what you really wanted to do…so just accept it.
I WANTED to spend my time studying, learning, figuring things out. I was enjoying myself. I wouldn’t change a thing. At this point in my life I am so At home in my skin.
The best revenge is success.
and when I look at losers like you I just laugh
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 22:41
You call me a loser. You don’t even know me. When I hear the hate in you, I cry. For you.
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 22:59
you cry for yourself.
sadly you can’t stand up on your own feet
you need an imaginary friend
now THAT is sad
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 23:29
Yawn! G’nite girllfriend.
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 23:00
Yes, that’s why you’re on all of these boards.
cecilia September 10th, 2014 at 23:38
you returned after almost a month to write this??
You are the one with the wasted life
Paulita Gilberto September 26th, 2014 at 12:59
Yes, once a month I don’t have something to do. Actually, I get messages for responses. I don’t troll message boards.
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 22:59
Go sit with somebody who has AIDS and tell them that.
cecilia September 10th, 2014 at 23:38
telling someone who is ill to believe in some useless fairy tale is insulting and a waste of time.
Paulita Gilberto September 26th, 2014 at 12:57
Why does God place such high value on sexual purity but homosexuals are somehow “special” and their sex sins don’t count? How is lying to somebody and telling them they’re OK when they aren’t “loving” them?
cecilia September 26th, 2014 at 16:21
you base your notions on unsubstantiated conclusions.
– No proof for any god
– simply being attracted to others of the same sex is not by default “a sin”
the fact is:
making up garbage to deny others their civil rights is the real sin and illegal
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 10:21
Scripture declares that homosexuality is a sin, which is
contrary to God’s intention in creating man and woman. Sinful resistance to the
revealed will of God is a factor in this sin. People may become slaves to this
sin (Romans 1:18-31, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10).
Many factors contribute to individual acts of sin: the
sinful nature we are born with, the weaknesses of our bodies, evil influences
in our environment, temptations and encouragement from other sinners, and our
own sinful choice join together to lead us into sin. All of these factors
contribute to homosexual sin. The proportionate role of these various factors
may vary from case to case.
We must warn the impenitent that homosexuality, like all
sins, excludes people from eternal life (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). The church,
therefore, must not, bless same-sex marriages or unions, since these are
contrary to the will of God. The church must not place into nor retain in the
public ministry of the Word people who defend, condone, or persist in words or
actions that are contrary to God’s law.
We are happy to assure the repentant who are struggling
against this sin that they have complete forgiveness through the blood of
Christ. When Christ died for all of the sins of the whole world, he gained
forgiveness for homosexual deeds, for homosexual desires, and for the inborn
sinful nature that produces these sins (1 Corinthians 6:11).
We should sympathize with all who are struggling against
this sin, remembering that we too have “pet sins” that may have a
strong hold on us. We warn against a “selective morality” that
harshly condemns homosexuality or other sins that we observe in others while
regarding those sins which are present in our own lives more lightly (Matthew
7:1-5). We should be impartial and unbiased in warning against all sins.
We all look forward to the resurrection of the body. Then
all the weaknesses of body and soul which now lead us into sin will disappear
forever. Then all of us will be able to serve God perfectly and purely in
everything we do.
Some advocates of legal and religious tolerance of homosexuality claim that
homosexuality has a genetic cause. Some reports claim that some homosexual men
share a particular pattern in the X sex-chromosome that they received from
their mother. Other researchers have claimed the existence of other types of
biological similarities between homosexual men. These researchers acknowledge
that their discoveries cannot account for all homosexuality and may merely be
associated with homosexuality rather than being a direct cause of it. Most
researchers conclude that the origins of homosexuality are complex and varied
and may never be fully understood.
How should we evaluate such claims in the light of the
biblical teaching of sin? Is homosexuality a free choice or an inborn tendency?
Like many such either-or questions, this question poses a
false dilemma. Every sin is both a choice of the will and the expression of an
inborn tendency to sin. Our sinful will is guilty of consent whenever we sin in
thought, word, or deed. As a result of our sinful nature we take pleasure in
our sins and defend them. This universal tendency is apparent also in the
efforts of gay rights activists to condone their homosexuality and to deny that
anything is wrong with it.
How should Christians respond to campaigns to pass laws
either protecting homosexuality as a civil right or laws restricting it? Are
opposing laws that grant status of homosexuality as a civil right or supporting
laws that restrict homosexual practice an attempt to force our religion on
others by means of the law?
We must distinguish between our duties as members of the
church and our duties as citizens, though the first may have an effect on how
we carry out the second.
Our Christian duty toward homosexuals (and toward the
sexually immoral, thieves, swindlers, murderers, slanderers, and drunkards, and
any violators of God’s will) is clear—to confront the impenitent with God’s
law, which condemns their sin, and to comfort the penitent with the gospel,
which offers forgiveness.
As good neighbors and citizens, our duty is not to pressure
people to accept and practice our religious beliefs, but to promote laws that
protect individuals and society from harm. If reason, evidence, and the natural
knowledge of God’s law, which remains in people even after the Fall, all
testify that stealing, murder, drug abuse, sexual immorality, abortion, and
homosexuality or condoning of same sex marriage are harmful to individuals or
to society, we as citizens should work for laws that oppose those evils. We do
this not to force our religious beliefs on others, but rather to work together
with other people who share a natural knowledge of God’s law in order to
protect society from actions that are harmful to society. The fact that stealing
is forbidden by the Seventh Commandment and murder by the Fifth Commandment
does not mean that we as Christians cannot support laws against stealing or
murder. The recognition that these acts are wrong and harmful is not peculiar
to Lutheranism nor to Christianity. It is based on a natural knowledge of God’s
law and on experience. This knowledge, therefore, is common to all people,
except where sinners have suppressed this knowledge. (Read Romans 1:18-32.)
As Christian citizens we should work for laws that will
protect society from the harmful consequences of sin. As citizens we promote
such laws on the basis of reason and natural knowledge of the law. If the state
tolerates moral evils, which violate God’s law, we will continue to oppose them
on the basis of God’s Word.
As a member of the church my goal is to win people’s hearts
and guide their lives by God’s Word. As a citizen my goal is to regulate
people’s conduct so they do not harm themselves or others. Many of the moral
principles of God’s law are relevant to both goals and may be used in both
spheres, but for different purposes. As a member of the church I use all of
God’s law as a mirror, a curb, and a rule. As a citizen I use parts of God’s
law as a curb against conduct that reason and natural knowledge of the law
recognize as harmful to society.
Although the consent of our sinful will is present in every
sin, it is also true that we are born as slaves of sin. We may also yield to a
particular sin so often that we no longer control the sin, but the sin controls
us. We may find ourselves yielding to sin even when we don’t want to.
Sin infects both our body and our soul. The body we now have
is not the perfect body that God created for Adam and Eve. It has been
contaminated by the effects of sin. There is no reason to maintain that the
specific effects of sin have been identical in each one of us or that we are
all equally susceptible to every sin. Our individual degree of susceptibility
to some specific sins may be due in part to differences in our bodies. Abuse of
alcohol and a hot temper are just two examples of sins that may be affected by
the chemistry of our bodies. Few would deny that the pressure to sexual sin is
greater at 18 than it is at 8 or at 88 and that a primary reason for this is
the changing chemistry of our bodies. It may well be that a person’s
susceptibility to homosexuality or to certain other sins depends in part on
bodily differences.
Even though the weakness of our own body may be one factor
that leads us to sin, God holds us responsible for all of our sins, even those
sins that enslave us and those sins that we are not aware of. We need God’s
forgiveness even for those sinful desires that we resist and do not act upon.
These desires too are sin. (Read Romans 7 for a treatment of slavery to sin.)
Christ’s forgiveness covers every form of every sin for the repentant.
OldLefty August 17th, 2014 at 10:39
That’s nice for the believers.
There is a reason why we don’t govern ourselves by the Bible, the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 11:21
Right. It’s called moral relativism. But your pithy remark would shed no light on your reasons for unbelief. The Koran says kill the infidel. The Bible says love each other. The Bhagavad Gita says hey man, it’s all cool. The unbeliever, such as yourself, has no code or compass, no rock to stand on–only shifting sands as the cultural tides move in and out, swallowing you into a sea of confusion. You are led only by an inner muse and nihilism in the form of “coexist” bumper stickers. Yet, the hard choice–to know God–is not something you can take comfort in as you justify sin and the corruption of the heart. This woman is an unfortunate product of an increasingly hedonistic world, as you must be to argue for relativism.
Carla Akins August 17th, 2014 at 11:35
Whoa, I beg to differ. Simply because I do not believe in your god does not mean I have no moral compass. People found a way to build civilizations and social order through morality long before Christianity came along.
Believe as you choose, that is your right and I will fight for your choice to do so. You do not get to judge my choices or force yours onto others and into law. We have a Constitution that specifically forbids it.
Morality and organized religion is an oxymoron.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 11:57
Says the moral relativist with no biblical training, who condemns what she knows nothing about.
Moral relativism is a philosophy that asserts there is no global, absolute moral law that applies to all people, for all time, and in all places. Instead of an objective moral law, it espouses a qualified view where morals are concerned, especially in the areas of individual moral practice where personal and situational encounters supposedly dictate the correct moral position.
Summing up the relative moral philosophy, Friedrich Nietzsche wrote, “You have your way, I have my way. As for the right way, it does not exist.”
In modern times, the espousal of moral relativism has been closely linked to the theory of evolution. The argument is, in the same way that humanity has evolved from lesser to greater biological organisms, the same process is in play in the area of morals and ethics. Therefore, all that can be ascertained at present (and forever) is that there is no absolute or fixed certainty in the area of morality.
Following this argument to its logical conclusion causes consternation among many, even those who espouse moral relativism. Paul Kurtz, in the book The Humanist Alternative, sums up the end result this way: “If man is a product of evolution, one species among others, in a universe without purpose, then man’s option is to live for himself”.
A grand example of this philosophy in action can be seen in the 2007-2008 meltdown that occurred in the American financial and banking industry. Those who taught relative morality in their philosophy and business ethics college courses proceeded to live out those teachings on Wall Street and in other corporate avenues, taking risks, not representing the truth properly, seeking monetary gain, etc, with the outcome being devastating for those who were on the receiving end of their relative (and financial) morality.
Oddly enough, many who believed in relative morality at that time were outraged and absolutely sure that those who engaged in deceptive business practices ought to be punished for their unethical moral behavior. This type of reaction speaks loudly to an important truth: moral relativists have a rather dim view of moral relativism when it negatively effects them.
Let the moral relativist be lied to, be the victim of false advertising, or of a crime and he instantly becomes a moral absolutist. A person’s reaction to what he considers unfair ethical treatment always betrays his true feelings on the matter of relative vs. objective moral laws….when things go wrong for him.
The problem for the moral relativist (who is most times a secular humanist that rejects God) is they have no good answer to the two-part question: Is there anything wrong with an action and, if so, why? Appealing to the relative whims of society or personal preferences doesn’t provide satisfying answers. A better response to the question necessitates that an individual have: (1) an unchanging standard he can turn to, and (2) an absolute authority by which proper moral obligation and be defended. Without these, morals/ethics simply becomes emotionally based preferences. Rape, for example, can never be deemed wrong; the strongest statement that can be made about rape is “I don’t like it.”
Three options for moral basis
The only options available to the secular humanist where a standard and authority are concerned are: (1) the natural universe; (2) culture; (3) the individual.
The natural universe doesn’t work since no one has even closesly explained how matter, atoms, chemicals, and electricity produce proper moral truths from which moral behavior is rightly derived. Culture doesn’t help as there are many cultures throughout the world, all with differing moral standards and practices; there is no way to ascertain which culture is ‘correct’ — if at all. Culture merely displays what “is” with respect to morality, and even the famous skeptic and antagonist of religion David Hume stated that humanity cannot derive an “ought” from an “is” where morals are concerned. Lastly, if each individual is used as a standard/authority for morals, the problem becomes one of imposing personal preferences on others and asking whose moral opinion is right?
Seeing this dilemma, some moral relativists try to say that science can be used to dictate ethics, but even secular scientists admit that science is a descriptive discipline (explanation) and not a prescriptive one (obligation). In addition, its empirical methods are impotent to answer such moral questions such as if the Nazi’s were evil or not, or is murder really morally wrong, or why is rape morally reprehensible? Einstein sums up the correct position in this matter when he said, “You are right in speaking of the moral foundations of science, but you cannot turn round and speak of the scientific foundations of morality.”
In the end, the moral relativist has no satisfying answer in his/her attempt to respond to the question of if there is anything wrong with anything, and why, outside of his opinion. There is no standard to turn to and no authority to recognize and respect.
The Christian Worldview
In contrast to the moral relativist whose worldview is secular humanism, the Christian worldview provides a solid standard and authority that can be confidently referenced and followed. The Creator God, who has revealed Himself in His Word is both the standard and authority for morals. From God’s nature comes pure good that serves as the straight line by which all crooked lines can be corrected.
God’s image has been impressed upon humanity (cf. Gen. 1:26-27) so that human beings instinctively know God’s moral law and what is right and wrong (cf. Rom. 2:14-15). People don’t have to believe in God to know His moral law, but in denying Him, they lose the ability to ground an objective moral law in something that transcends the physical universe. Without that transcendent God, as Dostoevsky famously observed, everything is permissible.
The tragic truth for the moral relativist is this: when you hold God’s funeral and bury His moral law along with Him, something will take His place. That something will be an individual or group of individuals who take power and, in authoritarian fashion, impose their own moral framework on everyone else. The world has already seen such things in the regimes of Stalin and Pol Pot.
The far better course of action is to thankfully acknowledge God as the true source of good and His objective moral law, which God established only for the well being of His creation.
Carla Akins August 17th, 2014 at 12:04
Wow, assume much? I was raised Baptist and continued to practice my faith until my 40’s. Funny, I’m willing to fight to allow you to embrace your choices, but you can’t find it within your self to allow yourself to be tolerant of mine.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 12:12
I “tolerate” your views, to use a popular relativist term. I also reject them, as you do mine (without much exposition in the form of logical argument). To say you were raised Baptist proves nothing about your faith, conviction or understanding of Baptist teachings. You’re willing to fight to allow me to embrace my choices? Then defend them. I don’t need you to tell me I have a right to express my dissent to the heresy posted here. My views have value equal to any others, unless you wish to revoke your tolerance for my free speech and discriminate against me on the basis of religion.
Carla Akins August 17th, 2014 at 12:27
Yet everyone here has been civil in their debate with you but you have called others toddler and hypocrite – not very Christian-like behavior based on my recall of the King James bible. You are welcome to post here ( a private site) as long as you remain civil but I am done with our conversation.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 16:47
I think I have been more than civil. I have also made my case with solid scriptural argument. The hypocrite claim is baseless and apparently misses the point that Christ called the Pharisees hypocrites. “But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?” Matthew 22:18. “He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.'” Mark 7:6. There are more examples but that suffices to make my point. As for the word “toddler,” I think you may be grasping at straws and overly sensitive. I could have said childish. What’s the difference? As for how others have been civil, you’ve cherry-picked. As for how “tolerant” you are by closing down this thread, *res ipsa loquitur*.
I will make my point simple. Homosexuality is a sin. Unrepentant sinners do not inherit the Kingdom of God. Unbelievers are moral relativists. A Christian who does not repent her sins, but celebrates them, is not a Christian.
Since you are not a practicing Christian, and do not argue from scripture but from emotional and cultural talking points (can’t we all just get along??), you have yet to make a valid case in support of this lesbian singer. But I appreciate your fragile “tolerance” for my viewpoint and will miss having an opportunity to educate you more.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 18:24
Voices of the Tolerant:
Carla Akins • a day ago
I had heard: Religion is like a penis, it’s fine to have one and be proud of it, but don’t take it out and wave it around or shove it down my children’s throat.
Carla, as Patton said to Rommel, I’ve read your book. A vulgar, anti-religious bigot. And an intolerant hypocrite.
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 23:12
Our culture was steeped in Christian principles. If every Bible in the United States was destroyed, it could be re-created by writers and text books. That’s why we don’t like murder or lying or stealing. Most of our laws originated with the Ten Commandments. That’s why a Christian nation put Moses with the Ten Commandments on the Supreme Court building.
Carla Akins September 11th, 2014 at 05:19
All man-made religions have a list of commandments and a similar moral mandates bu that does not require one to be religious to be moral.
Good people, moral, ethical moral people don’t believe murder or stealing – the bible and this country also endorsed slavery and misogyny along with other “bad” behavior – it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t evolve and change this behavior.
But most importantly the first amendment allows for freedom from religion, as well as a religion of our choice and the government recognizes many religions that our forefathers never dreamed of – NONE of which should be included or endorsed by our government in public entities.
OldLefty August 17th, 2014 at 11:42
The Koran says kill the infidel.
______
So does the Bible.
The Bhagavad Gita does NOT say hey man, it’s all cool, but we don’t need clergy to tell us what is or is not “all cool”.
YOU have NO idea what I am led by.
I might say that YOU are led by the same “inner muse and nihilism” that leads ALL zealots, especially those in the Muslim world today.
It is the certainty the my voodoo is good, your voodoo is bad that presents the greatest danger.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 16:54
That’s moral relativism talk. Learn something old Leftist:
Moral relativism is a philosophy that asserts there is no global, absolute moral law that applies to all people, for all time, and in all places. Instead of an objective moral law, it espouses a qualified view where morals are concerned, especially in the areas of individual moral practice where personal and situational encounters supposedly dictate the correct moral position.
Summing up the relative moral philosophy, Friedrich Nietzsche wrote, “You have your way, I have my way. As for the right way, it does not exist.”
In modern times, the espousal of moral relativism has been closely linked to the theory of evolution. The argument is, in the same way that humanity has evolved from lesser to greater biological organisms, the same process is in play in the area of morals and ethics. Therefore, all that can be ascertained at present (and forever) is that there is no absolute or fixed certainty in the area of morality.
Following this argument to its logical conclusion causes consternation among many, even those who espouse moral relativism. Paul Kurtz, in the book The Humanist Alternative, sums up the end result this way: “If man is a product of evolution, one species among others, in a universe without purpose, then man’s option is to live for himself”.
A grand example of this philosophy in action can be seen in the 2007-2008 meltdown that occurred in the American financial and banking industry. Those who taught relative morality in their philosophy and business ethics college courses proceeded to live out those teachings on Wall Street and in other corporate avenues, taking risks, not representing the truth properly, seeking monetary gain, etc, with the outcome being devastating for those who were on the receiving end of their relative (and financial) morality.
Oddly enough, many who believed in relative morality at that time were outraged and absolutely sure that those who engaged in deceptive business practices ought to be punished for their unethical moral behavior. This type of reaction speaks loudly to an important truth: moral relativists have a rather dim view of moral relativism when it negatively effects them.
Let the moral relativist be lied to, be the victim of false advertising, or of a crime and he instantly becomes a moral absolutist. A person’s reaction to what he considers unfair ethical treatment always betrays his true feelings on the matter of relative vs. objective moral laws….when things go wrong for him.
The problem for the moral relativist (who is most times a secular humanist that rejects God) is they have no good answer to the two-part question: Is there anything wrong with an action and, if so, why? Appealing to the relative whims of society or personal preferences doesn’t provide satisfying answers. A better response to the question necessitates that an individual have: (1) an unchanging standard he can turn to, and (2) an absolute authority by which proper moral obligation and be defended. Without these, morals/ethics simply becomes emotionally based preferences. Rape, for example, can never be deemed wrong; the strongest statement that can be made about rape is “I don’t like it.”
Three options for moral basis
The only options available to the secular humanist where a standard and authority are concerned are: (1) the natural universe; (2) culture; (3) the individual.
The natural universe doesn’t work since no one has even closesly explained how matter, atoms, chemicals, and electricity produce proper moral truths from which moral behavior is rightly derived. Culture doesn’t help as there are many cultures throughout the world, all with differing moral standards and practices; there is no way to ascertain which culture is ‘correct’ — if at all. Culture merely displays what “is” with respect to morality, and even the famous skeptic and antagonist of religion David Hume stated that humanity cannot derive an “ought” from an “is” where morals are concerned. Lastly, if each individual is used as a standard/authority for morals, the problem becomes one of imposing personal preferences on others and asking whose moral opinion is right?
Seeing this dilemma, some moral relativists try to say that science can be used to dictate ethics, but even secular scientists admit that science is a descriptive discipline (explanation) and not a prescriptive one (obligation). In addition, its empirical methods are impotent to answer such moral questions such as if the Nazi’s were evil or not, or is murder really morally wrong, or why is rape morally reprehensible? Einstein sums up the correct position in this matter when he said, “You are right in speaking of the moral foundations of science, but you cannot turn round and speak of the scientific foundations of morality.”
In the end, the moral relativist has no satisfying answer in his/her attempt to respond to the question of if there is anything wrong with anything, and why, outside of his opinion. There is no standard to turn to and no authority to recognize and respect.
The Christian Worldview
In contrast to the moral relativist whose worldview is secular humanism, the Christian worldview provides a solid standard and authority that can be confidently referenced and followed. The Creator God, who has revealed Himself in His Word is both the standard and authority for morals. From God’s nature comes pure good that serves as the straight line by which all crooked lines can be corrected.
God’s image has been impressed upon humanity (cf. Gen. 1:26-27) so that human beings instinctively know God’s moral law and what is right and wrong (cf. Rom. 2:14-15). People don’t have to believe in God to know His moral law, but in denying Him, they lose the ability to ground an objective moral law in something that transcends the physical universe. Without that transcendent God, as Dostoevsky famously observed, everything is permissible.
The tragic truth for the moral relativist is this: when you hold God’s funeral and bury His moral law along with Him, something will take His place. That something will be an individual or group of individuals who take power and, in authoritarian fashion, impose their own moral framework on everyone else. The world has already seen such things in the regimes of Stalin and Pol Pot.
The far better course of action is to thankfully acknowledge God as the true source of good and His objective moral law, which God established only for the well being of His creation.
OldLefty August 17th, 2014 at 18:51
I’m not impressed with your babbling, Rightist.
As Saul Alinsky said, “One of the most important things in life is
what Judge Learned Hand described as ‘that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you’re right.’
If you don’t have that, if you think you’ve got an inside track
to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually
constipated. The greatest crimes in history have been perpetrated by such
religious and political and racial fanatics, from the persecutions of the Inquisition on down to the Communist purges and Nazi genocide. “
You don’t have any more claim on morality than anyone else.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 18:56
Never said I did. Christ does, and I follow him, not your gods Alinksy and Hand, both of whom I have read and understand all too well to be old Leftists/socialists like yourself. Why do you care about this Lesbian singer? Because she offends Christ with her brazen attempt to conflate her relativist values with Christ’s teachings? Is that why you come to her defense? It certainly isn’t because you care about the vitality of the revealed Word.
OldLefty August 17th, 2014 at 19:00
My Gods???
You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you?
You don’t know what offends Christ.
Perhaps your phony sanctimony offends Christ.
But again, I think you are doing schtick.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 19:09
I’ve laid out facts and quoted scripture, but that doesn’t impress someone with a hardened viewpoint. Here’ my “schtick” old Leftist: Homosexuality is a deviant form of sexual behavior. It is also a sin, says the Lord. Celebrating it in the name of Christ is a sin to be condemned. The bunch of you on this left-leaning string don’t want to follow Christ; you want to follow your instinct for something, I don’t know what, compassion? Why compassion? Do you also endorse pedophilia? Polygamy? Rape? Those are sexual choices people make. Where do you draw the line? Anywhere you draw it that isn’t Biblically condemned is a false relativist subjective line. And your false incredulity is bluster, not argument.
OldLefty August 17th, 2014 at 19:36
I’ve laid out facts and quoted scripture,
______
You have quoted a religious book.
So do the Muslims, Hindus and others.
You seem to be more like the pharisees that Jesus warned about.
And you don’t get to decide what is what is moral for everybody else.
But you are amusing.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 19:47
You obviously have never studied comparative religions. But I’ve lost interest debating you. The living Christ that promises eternal salvation by offering his grace is different from the Allah, who promises virgins in heaven and rewards suicide bombers and terrorists. No, son, I’m not a Pharisee, who rejected the message of peace Christ brought to the world. I’m a Christian. And, to be perfectly candid, you’re a bigot.
OldLefty August 17th, 2014 at 19:51
Oh please spare me.
Sorry, but you sound more like a sanctimonious pharisee than a (humble???) follower of Jesus Christ.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 20:15
That the best you’ve got? Pointless ad hominem? I expected
nothing less.
OldLefty August 17th, 2014 at 20:17
Why?
Isn’t that all YOU’VE got?
Are we supposed to listen to sanctimonious lectures and not call it out?
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 22:43
I’m calling it out. Stop being sanctimonious.
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 23:07
Christians don’t doubt that they are wrong. We know we are. That’s why we chose to follow Jesus and not saul alinsky.
OldLefty September 26th, 2014 at 08:50
Christians don’t doubt that they are wrong. We know we are. That’s why we chose to follow Jesus and not saul alinsky.
_______
The problem that many of us have with many “Christians” is that they don’t seem to know anymore about Jesus than they know about Saul Alinsky.
Paulita Gilberto September 26th, 2014 at 13:05
I’ve played Bible trivia at Church events and am astounded by how little people know. Even the Pastors, sometimes. That is our lifeline and many people will be the ones to whom Jesus will say,
“I never knew you.” Unless he repented on his death bed, they may spend eternity with Saul Alinsky. The more I learn, the more I know I don’t know but just bantering around with people leads me to seek more deeply.
OldLefty September 26th, 2014 at 14:56
Unless he repented on his death bed, they may spend eternity with Saul Alinsky.
_______
In heaven?
Saul Alinsky is as likely to go there as anyone.
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 23:06
Jesus never says to kill the infidel. He says to pray for them and live a life that points the non-believer to Him.
veggiedude August 17th, 2014 at 14:46
It also advocates slavery, stoning people for adultery and having pedofile behavior.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 16:59
Yeah, I see alot of that going on in the Christian community. But you have fallen for one of the oldest arguments of non-believers, the misinterpretation of scripture. Please cite to where Jesus Christ advocated these things. The slavery example won’t work. The master-slave relationship was the equivalent of the master-servant or government-people concepts. So don’t sling your nonsense about that from your “literal” interpretation of scripture you no doubt condemn as being never literal. You people really have such hardened hearts, it’s impossible to know what you think life is ultimately about. Perhaps there will be a deathbed conversion.
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 19:45
I don’t have a hard heart. I have an intellect and it tells me religion is shit
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 19:53
You make a real intellectual point Cecilia.Said like an angry, vulgar Leftist hatemonger.
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 20:03
can’t stand it when people don’t get intimidated by your religious bullying??
awww, don’t cry
just learn to live with it because this isn’t the dark ages and you can’t kill non-believers with impunity any more
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 20:16
Isn’t it your feeding time?
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 20:50
no, we went out for lunch earlier with my mother and friend. Thanks for asking
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 20:53
Well, back to your cave then.
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 20:59
unlike you I live in a very nice comfortable home.
Thanks for your concern
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 21:13
I didn’t realize you have been to my home. Is there something
you didn’t like about it? I find it very comfortable.
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 21:58
no thanks. My home is way more comfortable. It’s got everything I want in it – family, my stuff, peace and quiet, no morons, safe neighborhood, nice neighbors.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 22:42
Happy for that.
Rusty Shackleford August 20th, 2014 at 05:00
Where did Jesus condemn gay people? You quoted Paul.
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 23:03
Jesus never condemned anyone. He came into the world to save sinners, not condemn them. But He did tell Mary Magdelene to “Go and sin no more.” We condemn ourselves by denying that God is God and we are not.
Rusty Shackleford September 11th, 2014 at 00:27
Where did I claim to be a god?
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 19:44
being gay is a “sin” like having blue eyes is a “sin”
all this religious bs is useless and inhuman
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 19:54
I could tell you where to go, but that’s already been written in the book of life.
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 20:06
except there’s no such place as hell – except in your own sad and pathetic useless life.
and fortunately, I’m living MY life and it’s FABULOUS!
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 20:31
It’s fabulous now. That’s the price of losing eternal life, which, BTW, is actually fabulous beyond imagination. Goodnight Cecilia. Enjoy it while you are able. Don’t think about old age, cancer, Alzheimer’s, divorce, or missing out on the afterlife. It’s all good.
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 20:57
there’s no evidence for any sort of “after life” so there’s no reason for me to worry about it.
plus, the reason I have such a FABULOUS life (and it’s been that way for many many decades now) is because I work hard. I worked hard at my career and received awards.
I worked with some really incredibly talented people.
even when things were very rough, the feeling of accomplishment you get when you overcome those tough moments is so worth it – I wouldn’t want it any other way.
I EARNED my happiness. I pulled myself up by my bootstraps and EARNED it all, baby!
I didn’t need an imaginary friend. I completely acknowledge that my success was because of my family and their sacrifices, but the work was all me.
And my work will live after me. THAT is my immortality. My body will be long dead while people still view my work. Knowing that just fills me with joy like you can’t imagine.
So go ahead and wallow in your guilt and misery because I have it all.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 21:11
Aw C, there’s no need to cry. You have a great life. You
should have no need to even have to debate me. But I sense you are not as satisfied as you say you are. In fact, to me, you sound unhappy, and feeling as though you need to justify your unbelief. But you don’t. Not with me or anyone
else. If you are secure in it, just ignore me and those like me.
I too have a “fabulous” life. But it is because I love the
Lord Jesus and He gives me all that I need. And I mean it. For 50 years, I loved the material world. I loved sex, drugs and rock and roll. Literally. But I was a child. An unhappy one. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the
ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope and
love. But the greatest of these is love.
That is the teaching you reject. 1 Corinthians 13. That is
the proposition you call mindless. You think you are “intellectual.” I think you are delusional. Uninformed. Uneducated. Lost. Feeling hopeless.
Your angry rejection of what I have to say is not driven by
intellect, but by hatred. For what exactly? Sanctimony? That’s just a word. I’m not perfect. I’m not righteous. I have only the promise of eternal life because I believe that God gave me a book, actually several books, collectively called
the Bible, that explains how I can be saved from my imperfect body, mind and soul. I pray you will have the patience and wisdom to examine what Christian belief is all about. And beware that Christianity is not monolithic. But coming
to Christ is the first step to true happiness. Not material happiness, which can never fully satisfy you.
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 21:56
I’ve never done drugs.
In fact there’s tons of stuff I’ve never done that sad little people like you have gone and done. And now you feel guilty for doing it all.
That’s your problem buddy and i refuse to accept your guilt and self hatred.
I stayed focused on developing my talents and making my life worth while. You were out wasting your time with drugs and partying. What you should do is just own your decisions. All that drugging and being drunk was what you really wanted to do…so just accept it.
I WANTED to spend my time studying, learning, figuring things out. I was enjoying myself. I wouldn’t change a thing. At this point in my life I am so At home in my skin.
The best revenge is success.
and when I look at losers like you I just laugh
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 22:41
You call me a loser. You don’t even know me. When I hear the hate in you, I cry. For you.
cecilia August 17th, 2014 at 22:59
you cry for yourself.
sadly you can’t stand up on your own feet
you need an imaginary friend
now THAT is sad
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 23:29
Yawn! G’nite girllfriend.
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 23:00
Yes, that’s why you’re on all of these boards.
cecilia September 10th, 2014 at 23:38
you returned after almost a month to write this??
You are the one with the wasted life
Paulita Gilberto September 26th, 2014 at 12:59
Yes, once a month I don’t have something to do. Actually, I get messages for responses. I don’t troll message boards.
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 22:59
Go sit with somebody who has AIDS and tell them that.
cecilia September 10th, 2014 at 23:38
telling someone who is ill to believe in some useless fairy tale is insulting and a waste of time.
Paulita Gilberto September 26th, 2014 at 12:57
Why does God place such high value on sexual purity but homosexuals are somehow “special” and their sex sins don’t count? How is lying to somebody and telling them they’re OK when they aren’t “loving” them?
cecilia September 26th, 2014 at 16:21
you base your notions on unsubstantiated conclusions.
– No proof for any god
– simply being attracted to others of the same sex is not by default “a sin”
the fact is:
making up garbage to deny others their civil rights is the real sin and illegal
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 20:25
To all my anti-religious, moral relativist friends on this string. I’ve enjoyed teaching to and sparring with you. I wish you all lives filled with the grace, peace and mercy of Jesus Christ, which only comes to those who confess their sins and are heartily sorry for them. If you choose to live in the waste of moral relativity, please give Jesus a chance to enter your hearts and minds one day when you’re feeling lost, lonely and spiritually dead. Ask the Holy Spirit to show you the Truth, the positive power of Christ Jesus, something Vicky
Beeching says she is devoted to, yet repudiates, enslaved by her sexual
profligacy.
Floyd Wilson August 18th, 2014 at 10:26
I gave Jesus a chance. As it turns out he is no more a saviour than Harry Potter
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 22:58
You were never born again, and it was Jesus that gave YOU a chance. Until you draw your last breath, God will not give up on you.
Commodore September 11th, 2014 at 13:23
Go read a real book. You’re getting a bit old for the fairy tales.
Paulita Gilberto September 26th, 2014 at 12:55
I’ve read a lot of books but have to agree with Einstein that even though he wasn’t a Christian, said the New Testament was “alive with the presence of the Nazarene.” I guess I read most ever fairy tale, saw ever Disney movie, and even read Indian folk lore and mythologies from different cultures. There is nothing like the Bible. Just the fact that some people put so much time in “refuting” something they think so meaningless shows they know nothing about it at all.
Commodore September 26th, 2014 at 13:02
Aren’t you precious. I refute hate, intolerance and bigotry. It just happens to always be the kind loving christians dishing out those things.
Gabriel Carter September 5th, 2014 at 23:23
The Book of Job disproves the whole God loving his children line. He loves us but would kill our family because of a bet. A bet with Satan? But if you love him (like Job), he will give you a new family. That’s pretty terrible parenting right there. Like if you run over your child’s dog (repeatedly on purpose and over a bet) and you take them to get a new one. But instead of a dog we are talking about Job’s children and he is supposed to just get over it. Why did God even take up a bet with Satan in the first place? If he is omniscient (which the devil would know) then why question it.
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 22:57
Job never opposed God and neither did Abraham. They were used as examples and are historic figures because of it. He knows what each person can handle and what he can’t. God never bet satan. He is His devil, after all and is the thing that tests us all.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 20:25
To all my anti-religious, moral relativist friends on this string. I’ve enjoyed teaching to and sparring with you. I wish you all lives filled with the grace, peace and mercy of Jesus Christ, which only comes to those who confess their sins and are heartily sorry for them. If you choose to live in the waste of moral relativity, please give Jesus a chance to enter your hearts and minds one day when you’re feeling lost, lonely and spiritually dead. Ask the Holy Spirit to show you the Truth, the positive power of Christ Jesus, something Vicky Beeching says she is devoted to, yet repudiates, enslaved by her sexual profligacy.
Floyd Wilson August 18th, 2014 at 10:26
I gave Jesus a chance. As it turns out he is no more a saviour than Harry Potter
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 22:58
You were never born again, and it was Jesus that gave YOU a chance. Until you draw your last breath, God will not give up on you.
TedT3289 September 11th, 2014 at 13:23
Go read a real book. You’re getting a bit old for the fairy tales.
Paulita Gilberto September 26th, 2014 at 12:55
I’ve read a lot of books but have to agree with Einstein that even though he wasn’t a Christian, said the New Testament was “alive with the presence of the Nazarene.” I guess I read most ever fairy tale, saw ever Disney movie, and even read Indian folk lore and mythologies from different cultures. There is nothing like the Bible. Just the fact that some people put so much time in “refuting” something they think so meaningless shows they know nothing about it at all.
TedT3289 September 26th, 2014 at 13:02
Aren’t you precious. I refute hate, intolerance and bigotry. It just happens to always be the kind loving christians dishing out those things.
Gabriel Carter September 5th, 2014 at 23:23
The Book of Job disproves the whole God loving his children line. He loves us but would kill our family because of a bet. A bet with Satan? But if you love him (like Job), he will give you a new family. That’s pretty terrible parenting right there. Like if you run over your child’s dog (repeatedly on purpose and over a bet) and you take them to get a new one. But instead of a dog we are talking about Job’s children and he is supposed to just get over it. Why did God even take up a bet with Satan in the first place? If he is omniscient (which the devil would know) then why question it.
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 22:57
Job never opposed God and neither did Abraham. They were used as examples and are historic figures because of it. He knows what each person can handle and what he can’t. God never bet satan. He is His devil, after all and is the thing that tests us all.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 21:42
“An interesting remark in the comment thread under The Independent’s article reads in part, “This lady is not a Christian. God does not love her and commands her to repent or she will perish….”
“If the commenter is indeed a Christian, then he knows that God loves all of his children.”
Love yes. Salvation no.
Paulita Gilberto September 26th, 2014 at 12:51
God does indeed love us, just as we are, but He loves us too much to leave us that way. There is no sin but that which is common to man. None of us can fight the power of sin on or own, or even want to, but God in time, can change our desires. That’s why Jesus said He would send a comforter to lead us into all righteousness.
iritegud August 17th, 2014 at 21:42
“An interesting remark in the comment thread under The Independent’s article reads in part, “This lady is not a Christian. God does not love her and commands her to repent or she will perish….”
“If the commenter is indeed a Christian, then he knows that God loves all of his children.”
Love yes. Salvation no.
Paulita Gilberto September 26th, 2014 at 12:51
God does indeed love us, just as we are, but He loves us too much to leave us that way. There is no sin but that which is common to man. None of us can fight the power of sin on or own, or even want to, but God in time, can change our desires. That’s why Jesus said He would send a comforter to lead us into all righteousness.
NativeSonKY August 18th, 2014 at 00:02
“I’m not a Liberal…” – ’cause if I said I was my MONEY TRAIN would jump off the tracks. Getting press is all good, though. I just take extreme exception to her assertion that Liberals don’t “value the Bible highly and hold to many of the same views that evangelical Christians do.” Another blanket statement that is pure mule-muffins. Peace!
NativeSonKY August 18th, 2014 at 00:02
“I’m not a Liberal…” – ’cause if I said I was my MONEY TRAIN would jump off the tracks. Getting press is all good, though. I just take extreme exception to her assertion that Liberals don’t “value the Bible highly and hold to many of the same views that evangelical Christians do.” Another blanket statement that is pure mule-muffins. Peace!
MizKrys September 6th, 2014 at 13:16
Yes, God loves her. There is no question as God loves us all. However, the devil is twisting her mind and reasoning and she is making a choice to follow. If God did not love us, then we would all still be dead. If she has truly come to the Lord, the Lord guides us to the truth. The Holy Spirit is that voice that she’s not listening too. God loves us that He died on the cross for us. It is the “sin” He hates. I hope and pray that she would ask and seek the Lord and truly pay attention to what He says. If she continues on with her selfishness and leading others to such a lifestyle… Then, she will be one of those surprised ones… We as Christians are not judge. We must tell the truth. If one is a true child of God, there is no way they can think this is something God accepts. People talk about why Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed and most say it is because they were not hospitable but if you read it, and over and over, it clearly states why it was destroyed. Read it people!!! It was destroyed because men young and old were into having sex with men, and that includes women. Otherwise, not only 4 people would have been able to leave that place. Here is another key to that… Lot offered his two daughters who have not laid with men (meaning they were virgins) but they did not accept it! There is nothing in the Bible during Jesus ministry when He had changed this. What did Jesus say? He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. So what was not changed in the N.T. still exists. It was also explained about husband and wife. A husband is the male, and the wife is the female. When God made Adam in the beginning, did He give Adam another man to be his companion? To be His wife? Did God not create male and female? In Leviticus, does it not say that one should not lay with man as he does with woman? There are sins listed in the Bible that is abomination and detestable to God. Every sin is wrong, and yes God still loves us, but that is up to us how to live our lives. I do not hate anyone except the devil! Even those who are following the devil can still come to the Lord. They can still change while they are here on earth. We, as people may have some trouble believing whether they have changed or not, but God knows and it is between that person and God. Like this woman, who claims that God loves her for who she is, Yes, He loves her as a human but He does not love what she is doing and saying. I hope and pray that she returns to God because this is one of those cases when she clearly has walked away from God… Pls Read John 6:53-66 (John 6:66 clearly states, that people do walk away from the faith- “From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.” When people do not believe, understand, and something they so love to do is something that they know God doesn’t like, and to make sense of it for themselves, that’s what they do. They walk away and to pretend that they are still walking with God, they start looking at the Bible for errors and misinterpretations. “God has not changed and never will. God’s Word is the same from beginning to the end”. You can listen to the Word as someone speaks it and you can listen to their interpretation, but ask God and He will reveal the truth to you. I hope and pray, she turns back to God and never have to hear these words from God on her judgment day. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Matthew 7:22-23
Read that entire Chapter folks! Also, Matthew 23….
Commodore September 11th, 2014 at 13:22
TL;DR something something you’re a bigot.
MizKrys September 11th, 2014 at 20:21
Commodore… Only a bigot would know what a bigot is, so, I am sorry that you think low of yourself. I will remain in the Word of God because I do know that His words are true… No men, can make me go against Him…. God Bless you and I will keep you in prayers…
MizKrys September 6th, 2014 at 13:16
Yes, God loves her. There is no question as God loves us all. However, the devil is twisting her mind and reasoning and she is making a choice to follow. If God did not love us, then we would all still be dead. If she has truly come to the Lord, the Lord guides us to the truth. The Holy Spirit is that voice that she’s not listening too. God loves us that He died on the cross for us. It is the “sin” He hates. I hope and pray that she would ask and seek the Lord and truly pay attention to what He says. If she continues on with her selfishness and leading others to such a lifestyle… Then, she will be one of those surprised ones… We as Christians are not judge. We must tell the truth. If one is a true child of God, there is no way they can think this is something God accepts. People talk about why Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed and most say it is because they were not hospitable but if you read it, and over and over, it clearly states why it was destroyed. Read it people!!! It was destroyed because men young and old were into having sex with men. Otherwise, not only 4 people would have been able to leave that place. Here is another key to that… Lot offered his two daughters who have not laid with men (meaning they were virgins) but they did not accept it! There is nothing in the Bible during Jesus ministry when He had changed this. What did Jesus say? He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. So what was not changed in the N.T. still exists. It was also explained about husband and wife. A husband is the male, and the wife is the female. When God made Adam in the beginning, did He give Adam another man to be his companion? To be His wife? Did God not create male and female? In Leviticus, does it not say that one should not lay with man as he does with woman? There are sins listed in the Bible that is abomination and detestable to God. Every sin is wrong, and yes God still loves us, but that is up to us how to live our lives. I do not hate anyone except the devil! Even those who are following the devil can still come to the Lord. They can still change while they are here on earth. We, as people may have some trouble believing whether they have changed or not, but God knows and it is between that person and God. Like this woman, who claims that God loves her for who she is, Yes, He loves her as a human but He does not love what she is doing and saying. I hope and pray that she returns to God because this is one of those cases when she clearly has walked away from God… Pls Read John 6:53-66 (John 6:66 clearly states, that people do walk away from the faith- “From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.” When people do not believe, understand, and something they so love to do is something that they know God doesn’t like, and to make sense of it for themselves, that’s what they do. They walk away and to pretend that they are still walking with God, they start looking at the Bible for errors and misinterpretations. “God has not changed and never will. God’s Word is the same from beginning to the end”. You can listen to the Word as someone speaks it and you can listen to their interpretation, but ask God and He will reveal the truth to you. I hope and pray, she turns back to God and never have to hear these words from God on her judgment day. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Matthew 7:22-23
Read that entire Chapter folks! Also, Matthew 23….
TedT3289 September 11th, 2014 at 13:22
TL;DR something something you’re a bigot.
MizKrys September 11th, 2014 at 20:21
Commodore… Only a bigot would know what a bigot is, so, I am sorry that you think low of yourself. I will remain in the Word of God because I do know that His words are true… No men, can make me go against Him…. God Bless you and I will keep you in prayers…
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 22:54
She’s hardly a “rock star.” Most Christians have never heard of her as she is British and her music isn’t very well promoted over here.
Paulita Gilberto September 10th, 2014 at 22:54
She’s hardly a “rock star.” Most Christians have never heard of her as she is British and her music isn’t very well promoted over here.