I am afraid this is going to have to run its course. When this is over Israel should reach out to those in Gaza and offer to help rebuild the community and raise the standard of living there. I think offering the carrot would do a lot better than beating them with a stick. The people of Gaza would probably vote in better leaders if Israel wasn’t oppressive. Israel should look at themselves as stewards of the people of Gaza and do the best job they can for them. Shoving them off to the side and telling them to leave us alone or we will beat you up, just isn’t cutting it. I hope in the future Israel makes better choices so we don’t have to repeat history again.
What are you, a WOMAN? These people are terrorists. We have to be tough with them. Show them who’s boss, take control, Stand up, be a man. Grow some balls. fap fap fap
Srsly, you could have written that exact comment any time over the past thirty years at least, and it would have been just as true then as it is this time. There seems to be a hormone standing in the way.
I have said it before. Problem is, people don’t listen to me enough. I am hoping at some point if I say it enough it will sink in. Probably not though.
Or Israel could, you know, stop mass murdering women and children, stop blockading Palestine, stop invading Palestine, stop stealing Palestinian territory, stop destroying Palestinian power and desalination plants, stop preventing Palestine from importing food and goods, stop preventing Palestine from engaging in commerce, stop ruling over Palestine like its an open-air prison, actually recognize Palestine’s right to exist, etc.
I am afraid this is going to have to run its course. When this is over Israel should reach out to those in Gaza and offer to help rebuild the community and raise the standard of living there. I think offering the carrot would do a lot better than beating them with a stick. The people of Gaza would probably vote in better leaders if Israel wasn’t oppressive. Israel should look at themselves as stewards of the people of Gaza and do the best job they can for them. Shoving them off to the side and telling them to leave us alone or we will beat you up, just isn’t cutting it. I hope in the future Israel makes better choices so we don’t have to repeat history again.
What are you, a WOMAN? These people are terrorists. We have to be tough with them. Show them who’s boss, take control, Stand up, be a man. Grow some balls. fap fap fap
Srsly, you could have written that exact comment any time over the past thirty years at least, and it would have been just as true then as it is this time. There seems to be a hormone standing in the way.
I have said it before. Problem is, people don’t listen to me enough. I am hoping at some point if I say it enough it will sink in. Probably not though.
Or Israel could, you know, stop mass murdering women and children, stop blockading Palestine, stop invading Palestine, stop stealing Palestinian territory, stop destroying Palestinian power and desalination plants, stop preventing Palestine from importing food and goods, stop preventing Palestine from engaging in commerce, stop ruling over Palestine like its an open-air prison, actually recognize Palestine’s right to exist, etc.
I think too many people would get up in arms (metaphorically speaking) about U.S. “boots on the ground” in the Israeli conflict. Also there’s the matter of where to evacuate them to.
I like the idea, mind you. I’m just looking at the practicalities of it.
I’m sure Mossad has some equivalent of special forces who could do something more surgical.
I’m glad you like the idea. I guess it comes back to the question, “Who really wants to save Gaza?” I mean, what if we asked Israel. What would that conversation look like?
Ring ring: “Hello?”
“Hello Benjamin, this is Obama. Say look, we had this idea to help you and the non-combatants in Gaza. Would you mind if we brought in some ships and get the women, children, sick, injured and elderly out of harms way? You know, all this carnage is making us both look bad.
“What, oh you think it’s a good idea. And yes, you are right, it would probably be a fatal blow to Hamas, without human shields to hide behind, they would not stand a chance.
“So, bye-bye and please say hello to the wife and kids.”
Of course we’d announce our intentions to Hamas, so the President gets back on the horn…
Ring ring, ring ring, ring ring… this goes on for some time so feel free to get up, run an errand, etc.
Finally the phone picks-up:
“Yes? Hello? This is President Obama. Is this Hamas?”
“Death to America! We can’t come to the phone right now, it’s the fighting season and all our operators are currently busy digging tunnels, stashing bombs, firing rockets and otherwise preoccupied with Death to Israel! Press 1 if you’d like to transfer your call to our leadership currently waging holy war from their penthouse suite in Qatar. Press 2 if you like to join the Hamas Martyrs Club where the after-life is the only life. Press 3 if you…”
Exasperated the President hangs-up, leans back and sighs, “Well at least they can’t say I didn’t try to warn them.”
80% of the people Israel is killing NOW are innocent civilians. I can only imagine that percentage would go UP if they were given even MORE leeway to engage in mass murder.
OK, that’s certainly an obvious and important question. Yet, I’d like to emphasize the potential impact of the US stepping-up and putting this idea in front of everybody concerned. Of course we have to make good on any promises. It will raise eyebrows, turn heads and maybe even change some minds about what America really stands for in this troubled world of ours.
I need to consult some maps but can’t do it right now. However, off the top of my head I think Egypt, the Sinai, would be the most logical. It’s close by, already shares a border with Gaza and the Egyptian government claims to support the Palestinians (not sure what that means though)… Nonetheless it would be messy, risky and certainly uncomfortable as well as expensive.
Oh, my bad. If i wasnt showing the appropriate amount of respect to the mass murdering, white supremacist leader of a genocidal apartheid state currently carpet bombing scores of innocent civilians with white phosphorous and flagrantly violating 60 some-odd UN violations in their never-ending quest to wipe out an entire population of literal Semites, i deeply apologize. I meant no offense.
He’s emotionally connected to his side, which is understandable. But it’s at the sacrifice of rational discussion. I’ve been where he’s coming from before — about 13 years and 1 month ago.
Not at all. Im simply offering a 100% sincere apology to anyone i offended by insulting our nearest and dearest ally, the State of Israel, who is merely Defending Itself from all of the thousands of evil, bloodthirsty, tiny little Palestinian babies, asleep in their cribs dreaming up terror plots against Jews, the worlds most horribly oppressed subclass of Rich White Europeans.
That sums up the problem. Your goal is to kill people. You are willing to kill innocent children to do it, and like every abuser, cry that you have no choice. It’s a matter of priorities.
Truth is, there are plenty of other choices, but those options require you to stop playng macho tough guy and your ego won’t allow you to consider them.
Instead, your side kills innocent bystanders to strike at them, while their side kills innocent bystanders to strike at you.
Children die, but no one questions your manliness.
Uzza, first of all I’m not firing rockets into Gaza, so I’m not killing any innocent children. Nor am I grabbing up innocent children to hold in front of me while I shoot into Israel.
My statement is actually a wish that Israel could do this without going through the children — but the fact remains that Israel didn’t put the children there; the cowards in Hamas are keeping them there as hostages and shields.
If someone is shooting at you, holding a child in front of them, I’d love to hear what your other options are that don’t entail letting yourself get shot.
And yet you have the audacity to accuse Palestinian children of being human shields for Hamas, simply by living in their own homes, going to their local schools, and playing on empty beaches.
What post are you replying to? Are you saying that Israelis are JUSTIFIED in using Palestinian children as human shields for their vehicles?
Where are you saying Hamas is launching rockets from? Israel is leveling schools, hospitals, and entire apartment complexes. How the hell do you shoot a rocket from inside a building? If someone in the United States was firing explosives from an apartment, would Obama be justified in carpet bombing the entire city block? Or would you expect him to send a SWAT team in to arrest the person actually involved, without killing the surrounding civilian populace?
I don’t think you do. If you did, you would look at all the millions of examples where other options have been used, and model your position on that. You choose instead to ignore them, just as you completely ignored my point and reitereated that your goal is to kill people, not to save lives.
Actually, Hamas is not killing innocent bystanders. So far theyve killed a few dozen people, and they were all IDF soldiers. Whereas 80% of the people Israel has killed are innocent, unarmed civilians, 30% of them children.
I think too many people would get up in arms (metaphorically speaking) about U.S. “boots on the ground” in the Israeli conflict. Also there’s the matter of where to evacuate them to.
I like the idea, mind you. I’m just looking at the practicalities of it.
I’m sure Mossad has some equivalent of special forces who could do something more surgical.
I’m glad you like the idea. I guess it comes back to the question, “Who really wants to save Gaza?” I mean, what if we asked Israel. What would that conversation look like?
Ring ring: “Hello?”
“Hello Benjamin, this is Obama. Say look, we had this idea to help you and the non-combatants in Gaza. Would you mind if we brought in some ships and get the women, children, sick, injured and elderly out of harms way? You know, all this carnage is making us both look bad.
“What, oh you think it’s a good idea. And yes, you are right, it would probably be a fatal blow to Hamas, without human shields to hide behind, they would not stand a chance.
“So, bye-bye and please say hello to the wife and kids.”
Of course we’d announce our intentions to Hamas, so the President gets back on the horn…
Ring ring, ring ring, ring ring… this goes on for some time so feel free to get up, run an errand, etc.
Finally the phone picks-up:
“Yes? Hello? This is President Obama. Is this Hamas?”
“Death to America! We can’t come to the phone right now, it’s the fighting season and all our operators are currently busy digging tunnels, stashing bombs, firing rockets and otherwise preoccupied with Death to Israel! Press 1 if you’d like to transfer your call to our leadership currently waging holy war from their penthouse suite in Qatar. Press 2 if you like to join the Hamas Martyrs Club where the after-life is the only life. Press 3 if you…”
Exasperated the President hangs-up, leans back and sighs, “Well at least they can’t say I didn’t try to warn them.”
Oh come on! Netanyahu is no saint by any stretch of the imagination. He’s like the Dick Cheney of the middle east. I remember when he was looking for a reason – any reason – to bomb Iran.
Sainthood has nothing to do with it, although I think Netanyahu is much smater than Cheney, or you, or me. He enjoys around 85% public approval in Israel and a majorty here in America.
Frankly I’m not so interested in the whole Iran thing now we have a cease-fire and perhaps an opprotunity to save hundreds of thousands of innocent lives. I submit that should be our (America’s and humanity’s) priority at the moment.
Intelligence has nothing to do with it either. It’s all about salesmanship. Now, Cheney’s not the smartest tool in the shed, but he was able to start a war simply by selling the WMD “smokin’ gun/mushroom cloud” fairy tale to the American people. Take, for example, organized religion. A tax exempt corporation was able to convince the masses that there’s an invisible man in the sky, giving people instructions on what to believe, followed by threats of eternal damnation for non-believers. Good salesmanship passed down through the ages.
As for disinterest in the whole Iran thing, this shouldn’t be so easily overlooked. It gives one insight as to Netanyahu’s mindset. I certainly wouldn’t want a war monger like John McCain or LIndsey Graham running the country because, judging by their idealogy, we could be looking at another war.
I’m not saying everything is Netanyahu’s fault, but I’m sure he’s not sporting clean hands.
Dear Bunya,
I am not suggesting we overlook anything or that anybody has clean hands. Although you did reignite my imagination, what would America look like today, if 9/11 had never happened? Or, perhaps more succinctly, if Bush/Cheny had not gotten into the White House?
But that’s neither here or now. For the purpose of discussion I would like to remain focused on current events and do what little I can to help stop the fighting and save innocent lives.
80% of the people Israel is killing NOW are innocent civilians. I can only imagine that percentage would go UP if they were given even MORE leeway to engage in mass murder.
OK, that’s certainly an obvious and important question. Yet, I’d like to emphasize the potential impact of the US stepping-up and putting this idea in front of everybody concerned. Of course we have to make good on any promises. It will raise eyebrows, turn heads and maybe even change some minds about what America really stands for in this troubled world of ours.
I need to consult some maps but can’t do it right now. However, off the top of my head I think Egypt, the Sinai, would be the most logical. It’s close by, already shares a border with Gaza and the Egyptian government claims to support the Palestinians (not sure what that means though)… Nonetheless it would be messy, risky and certainly uncomfortable as well as expensive.
Oh, my bad. If i wasnt showing the appropriate amount of respect to the mass murdering, white supremacist leader of a genocidal apartheid state currently carpet bombing scores of innocent civilians with white phosphorous and flagrantly violating 60 some-odd UN violations in their never-ending quest to wipe out an entire population of literal Semites, i deeply apologize. I meant no offense.
He’s emotionally connected to his side, which is understandable. But it’s at the sacrifice of rational discussion. I’ve been where he’s coming from before — about 13 years and 1 month ago.
Not at all. Im simply offering a 100% sincere apology to anyone i offended by insulting our nearest and dearest ally, the State of Israel, who is merely Defending Itself from all of the thousands of evil, bloodthirsty, tiny little Palestinian babies, asleep in their cribs dreaming up terror plots against Jews, the worlds most horribly oppressed subclass of Rich White Europeans.
That sums up the problem. Your goal is to kill people. You are willing to kill innocent children to do it, and like every abuser, cry that you have no choice. It’s a matter of priorities.
Truth is, there are plenty of other choices, but those options require you to stop playng macho tough guy and your ego won’t allow you to consider them.
Instead, your side kills innocent bystanders to strike at them, while their side kills innocent bystanders to strike at you.
Children die, but no one questions your manliness.
Uzza, first of all I’m not firing rockets into Gaza, so I’m not killing any innocent children. Nor am I grabbing up innocent children to hold in front of me while I shoot into Israel.
My statement is actually a wish that Israel could do this without going through the children — but the fact remains that Israel didn’t put the children there; the cowards in Hamas are keeping them there as hostages and shields.
If someone is shooting at you, holding a child in front of them, I’d love to hear what your other options are that don’t entail letting yourself get shot.
And yet you have the audacity to accuse Palestinian children of being human shields for Hamas, simply by living in their own homes, going to their local schools, and playing on empty beaches.
What post are you replying to? Are you saying that Israelis are JUSTIFIED in using Palestinian children as human shields for their vehicles?
Where are you saying Hamas is launching rockets from? Israel is leveling schools, hospitals, and entire apartment complexes. How the hell do you shoot a rocket from inside a building? If someone in the United States was firing explosives from an apartment, would Obama be justified in carpet bombing the entire city block? Or would you expect him to send a SWAT team in to arrest the person actually involved, without killing the surrounding civilian populace?
I don’t think you do. If you did, you would look at all the millions of examples where other options have been used, and model your position on that. You choose instead to ignore them, just as you completely ignored my point and merely reitereated that your goal is to kill people, not to save lives.
Actually, Hamas is not killing innocent bystanders. So far theyve killed a few dozen people, and they were all IDF soldiers. Whereas 80% of the people Israel has killed are innocent, unarmed civilians, 30% of them children.
Since the creation of the state, by the UN. Arab nations have been determined to destroy Israel. One day after the official formation in 1948, 1967, 1973, First intifada, Second Intifada, Hezbellah, Hamas, Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc.. etc… There is no real partner for peace. Until you get a universal resolution amongst the UN and the Arab League of Israel’s right to exist. You will never have peace.
Hamas was elected by the people, so they share in the blame with what is happening. I dont buy the argument that Israel is an illegal occupier. When you are attacked time and time again. You are going to do what is necessary. Isn’t it funny, that after the West bank was captured from “JORDAN” during the 67 war. That the never demanded it back.. Why is that?
Since the creation of the state, by the UN. Arab nations have been determined to destroy Israel. One day after the official formation in 1948, 1967, 1973, First intifada, Second Intifada, Hezbellah, Hamas, Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc.. etc… There is no real partner for peace. Until you get a universal resolution amongst the UN and the Arab League of Israel’s right to exist. You will never have peace.
Hamas was elected by the people, so they share in the blame with what is happening. I dont buy the argument that Israel is an illegal occupier. When you are attacked time and time again. You are going to do what is necessary. Isn’t it funny, that after the West bank was captured from “JORDAN” during the 67 war. That the never demanded it back.. Why is that?
Sainthood has nothing to do with it, although I think Netanyahu is much smater than Cheney, or you, or me. He enjoys around 85% public approval in Israel and a majorty here in America.
Frankly I’m not so interested in the whole Iran thing now we have a cease-fire and perhaps an opprotunity to save hundreds of thousands of innocent lives. I submit that should be our (America’s and humanity’s) priority at the moment.
Intelligence has nothing to do with it either. It’s all about salesmanship. Now, Cheney’s not the smartest tool in the shed, but he was able to start a war simply by selling the WMD “smokin’ gun/mushroom cloud” fairy tale to the American people. Take, for example, organized religion. A tax exempt corporation was able to convince the masses that there’s an invisible man in the sky, giving people instructions on what to believe, followed by threats of eternal damnation for non-believers. Good salesmanship passed down through the ages.
As for disinterest in the whole Iran thing, this shouldn’t be so easily overlooked. It gives one insight as to Netanyahu’s mindset. I certainly wouldn’t want a war monger like John McCain or LIndsey Graham running the country because, judging by their idealogy, we could be looking at another war.
I’m not saying everything is Netanyahu’s fault, but I’m sure he’s not sporting clean hands.
Dear Bunya,
I am not suggesting we overlook anything or that anybody has clean hands. Although you did reignite my imagination, what would America look like today, if 9/11 had never happened? Or, perhaps more succinctly, if Bush/Cheny had not gotten into the White House?
But that’s neither here or now. For the purpose of discussion I would like to remain focused on current events and do what little I can to help stop the fighting and save innocent lives.
The reason that the right wing in the U.S. isn’t saying anything is because it’s sanctioned in the old testament. I can’t remember which book maybe exodus but when the jews were promised by “God” the land we know call Israel they were commanded to kill everyone and everything except the trees. Can’t kill the trees I remember that part of it vividly. The land was to be cleansed with the blood of the people that inhabited the land.
This is why I’m an atheist this God seems like a dick!
The reason that the right wing in the U.S. isn’t saying anything is because it’s sanctioned in the old testament. I can’t remember which book maybe exodus but when the jews were promised by “God” the land we know call Israel they were commanded to kill everyone and everything except the trees. Can’t kill the trees I remember that part of it vividly. The land was to be cleansed with the blood of the people that inhabited the land.
This is why I’m an atheist this God seems like a dick!
raincheck1956 July 31st, 2014 at 08:45
There’s got to be a better way…
raincheck1956 July 31st, 2014 at 08:47
I’ve got a feeling I’m about to find out why I was the first to post here… I’m NEVER the first!
greenfloyd July 31st, 2014 at 09:30
I am afraid you are not first. This thread is a continuation of what I know consder to be the “Gaza Death Watch.”
raincheck1956 July 31st, 2014 at 11:13
OH….
mea_mark July 31st, 2014 at 11:53
I am afraid this is going to have to run its course. When this is over Israel should reach out to those in Gaza and offer to help rebuild the community and raise the standard of living there. I think offering the carrot would do a lot better than beating them with a stick. The people of Gaza would probably vote in better leaders if Israel wasn’t oppressive. Israel should look at themselves as stewards of the people of Gaza and do the best job they can for them. Shoving them off to the side and telling them to leave us alone or we will beat you up, just isn’t cutting it. I hope in the future Israel makes better choices so we don’t have to repeat history again.
uzza July 31st, 2014 at 12:48
What are you, a WOMAN? These people are terrorists. We have to be tough with them. Show them who’s boss, take control, Stand up, be a man. Grow some balls. fap fap fap
Srsly, you could have written that exact comment any time over the past thirty years at least, and it would have been just as true then as it is this time. There seems to be a hormone standing in the way.
Guest July 31st, 2014 at 13:42
Mea_mark, if you ARE a woman, please dont tell Uzza. I think he might be an Israeli, and we know how much they love to murder innocent women.
mea_mark July 31st, 2014 at 13:59
I have said it before. Problem is, people don’t listen to me enough. I am hoping at some point if I say it enough it will sink in. Probably not though.
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 13:45
Or Israel could, you know, stop mass murdering women and children, stop blockading Palestine, stop invading Palestine, stop stealing Palestinian territory, stop destroying Palestinian power and desalination plants, stop preventing Palestine from importing food and goods, stop preventing Palestine from engaging in commerce, stop ruling over Palestine like its an open-air prison, actually recognize Palestine’s right to exist, etc.
raincheck July 31st, 2014 at 08:45
There’s got to be a better way…
raincheck July 31st, 2014 at 08:47
I’ve got a feeling I’m about to find out why I was the first to post here… I’m NEVER the first!
floyd[@]greenfloyd.org July 31st, 2014 at 09:30
I am afraid you are not first. This thread is a continuation of what I know consder to be the “Gaza Death Watch.”
raincheck July 31st, 2014 at 11:13
OH….
mea_mark July 31st, 2014 at 11:53
I am afraid this is going to have to run its course. When this is over Israel should reach out to those in Gaza and offer to help rebuild the community and raise the standard of living there. I think offering the carrot would do a lot better than beating them with a stick. The people of Gaza would probably vote in better leaders if Israel wasn’t oppressive. Israel should look at themselves as stewards of the people of Gaza and do the best job they can for them. Shoving them off to the side and telling them to leave us alone or we will beat you up, just isn’t cutting it. I hope in the future Israel makes better choices so we don’t have to repeat history again.
uzza July 31st, 2014 at 12:48
What are you, a WOMAN? These people are terrorists. We have to be tough with them. Show them who’s boss, take control, Stand up, be a man. Grow some balls. fap fap fap
Srsly, you could have written that exact comment any time over the past thirty years at least, and it would have been just as true then as it is this time. There seems to be a hormone standing in the way.
mea_mark July 31st, 2014 at 13:59
I have said it before. Problem is, people don’t listen to me enough. I am hoping at some point if I say it enough it will sink in. Probably not though.
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 13:45
Or Israel could, you know, stop mass murdering women and children, stop blockading Palestine, stop invading Palestine, stop stealing Palestinian territory, stop destroying Palestinian power and desalination plants, stop preventing Palestine from importing food and goods, stop preventing Palestine from engaging in commerce, stop ruling over Palestine like its an open-air prison, actually recognize Palestine’s right to exist, etc.
R.J. Carter July 31st, 2014 at 09:04
If only there were a way to kill Hamas without having to go through the children they hide behind.
greenfloyd July 31st, 2014 at 09:33
I think there is a way. What do you think aobut a US led evacuation of non-combatants?
R.J. Carter July 31st, 2014 at 09:49
I think too many people would get up in arms (metaphorically speaking) about U.S. “boots on the ground” in the Israeli conflict. Also there’s the matter of where to evacuate them to.
I like the idea, mind you. I’m just looking at the practicalities of it.
I’m sure Mossad has some equivalent of special forces who could do something more surgical.
greenfloyd July 31st, 2014 at 11:36
I’m glad you like the idea. I guess it comes back to the question, “Who really wants to save Gaza?” I mean, what if we asked Israel. What would that conversation look like?
Ring ring: “Hello?”
“Hello Benjamin, this is Obama. Say look, we had this idea to help you and the non-combatants in Gaza. Would you mind if we brought in some ships and get the women, children, sick, injured and elderly out of harms way? You know, all this carnage is making us both look bad.
“What, oh you think it’s a good idea. And yes, you are right, it would probably be a fatal blow to Hamas, without human shields to hide behind, they would not stand a chance.
“So, bye-bye and please say hello to the wife and kids.”
Of course we’d announce our intentions to Hamas, so the President gets back on the horn…
Ring ring, ring ring, ring ring… this goes on for some time so feel free to get up, run an errand, etc.
Finally the phone picks-up:
“Yes? Hello? This is President Obama. Is this Hamas?”
“Death to America! We can’t come to the phone right now, it’s the fighting season and all our operators are currently busy digging tunnels, stashing bombs, firing rockets and otherwise preoccupied with Death to Israel! Press 1 if you’d like to transfer your call to our leadership currently waging holy war from their penthouse suite in Qatar. Press 2 if you like to join the Hamas Martyrs Club where the after-life is the only life. Press 3 if you…”
Exasperated the President hangs-up, leans back and sighs, “Well at least they can’t say I didn’t try to warn them.”
uzza August 1st, 2014 at 01:53
One thing we can all “agree, we should all try to avoid giving offense.” Shi–it.
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 13:41
The Mossad would just murder them all and dump their bodies in the sea
R.J. Carter July 31st, 2014 at 19:31
If we’re talking about the Hamas rocket launching people, I’m cool with that.
Keyser Soze August 1st, 2014 at 03:31
80% of the people Israel is killing NOW are innocent civilians. I can only imagine that percentage would go UP if they were given even MORE leeway to engage in mass murder.
Gindy51 July 31st, 2014 at 10:45
Evacuate where?
greenfloyd July 31st, 2014 at 12:56
OK, that’s certainly an obvious and important question. Yet, I’d like to emphasize the potential impact of the US stepping-up and putting this idea in front of everybody concerned. Of course we have to make good on any promises. It will raise eyebrows, turn heads and maybe even change some minds about what America really stands for in this troubled world of ours.
I need to consult some maps but can’t do it right now. However, off the top of my head I think Egypt, the Sinai, would be the most logical. It’s close by, already shares a border with Gaza and the Egyptian government claims to support the Palestinians (not sure what that means though)… Nonetheless it would be messy, risky and certainly uncomfortable as well as expensive.
So, who wants to save Gaza?
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 13:40
Well wherever they send them, dont tell Netanyahu where it is. He’ll just bomb the refugees
mea_mark July 31st, 2014 at 14:03
You are kinda pushing it, please tone it down a little.
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 14:07
Oh, my bad. If i wasnt showing the appropriate amount of respect to the mass murdering, white supremacist leader of a genocidal apartheid state currently carpet bombing scores of innocent civilians with white phosphorous and flagrantly violating 60 some-odd UN violations in their never-ending quest to wipe out an entire population of literal Semites, i deeply apologize. I meant no offense.
R.J. Carter July 31st, 2014 at 14:19
You mad bro?
mea_mark July 31st, 2014 at 14:25
He might really be mad if he gets banned and everything he commented disappears. Trying to piss off the moderators is usually not a good idea.
R.J. Carter July 31st, 2014 at 14:51
He’s emotionally connected to his side, which is understandable. But it’s at the sacrifice of rational discussion. I’ve been where he’s coming from before — about 13 years and 1 month ago.
Anomaly 100 July 31st, 2014 at 18:40
Stuff happens.
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 17:29
Not at all. Im simply offering a 100% sincere apology to anyone i offended by insulting our nearest and dearest ally, the State of Israel, who is merely Defending Itself from all of the thousands of evil, bloodthirsty, tiny little Palestinian babies, asleep in their cribs dreaming up terror plots against Jews, the worlds most horribly oppressed subclass of Rich White Europeans.
danah gaz July 31st, 2014 at 23:46
Yeah. Ethnic cleansing makes me pretty mad, too, as it happens.
R.J. Carter August 1st, 2014 at 09:51
That’s why there’s such an outcry over Mosul.
danah gaz August 1st, 2014 at 12:44
SQUIRREL!
R.J. Carter August 1st, 2014 at 13:18
Same nuts, different tree.
uzza July 31st, 2014 at 11:50
That sums up the problem. Your goal is to kill people. You are willing to kill innocent children to do it, and like every abuser, cry that you have no choice. It’s a matter of priorities.
Truth is, there are plenty of other choices, but those options require you to stop playng macho tough guy and your ego won’t allow you to consider them.
Instead, your side kills innocent bystanders to strike at them, while their side kills innocent bystanders to strike at you.
Children die, but no one questions your manliness.
R.J. Carter July 31st, 2014 at 12:06
Uzza, first of all I’m not firing rockets into Gaza, so I’m not killing any innocent children. Nor am I grabbing up innocent children to hold in front of me while I shoot into Israel.
My statement is actually a wish that Israel could do this without going through the children — but the fact remains that Israel didn’t put the children there; the cowards in Hamas are keeping them there as hostages and shields.
If someone is shooting at you, holding a child in front of them, I’d love to hear what your other options are that don’t entail letting yourself get shot.
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 13:36
The only people using innocent children as human shields is Israel and the IDF: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-report-accuses-israeli-forces-of-using-palestinian-children-as-human-shields-abusing-children-in-custody/
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.530993
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/survivors-massacre-palestinians.html
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 13:37
This is how Israeli (and ALL right-wing) propaganda works: accuse your victim of the thing YOU are doing to THEM
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 13:39
Heres a photo of Israelis tying a 13 year old boy to the front of a military vehicle as a human shield: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/dailymail_humanshield.jpg
And yet you have the audacity to accuse Palestinian children of being human shields for Hamas, simply by living in their own homes, going to their local schools, and playing on empty beaches.
R.J. Carter July 31st, 2014 at 14:23
…from which Hamas is launching rockets. (Not rocks… rock-ets.)
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 17:34
What post are you replying to? Are you saying that Israelis are JUSTIFIED in using Palestinian children as human shields for their vehicles?
Where are you saying Hamas is launching rockets from? Israel is leveling schools, hospitals, and entire apartment complexes. How the hell do you shoot a rocket from inside a building? If someone in the United States was firing explosives from an apartment, would Obama be justified in carpet bombing the entire city block? Or would you expect him to send a SWAT team in to arrest the person actually involved, without killing the surrounding civilian populace?
uzza July 31st, 2014 at 14:37
I don’t think you do. If you did, you would look at all the millions of examples where other options have been used, and model your position on that. You choose instead to ignore them, just as you completely ignored my point and reitereated that your goal is to kill people, not to save lives.
R.J. Carter July 31st, 2014 at 14:52
I don’t know of millions of examples of how to take out someone who is using an innocent life as a human shield.
I did a google on it, and all I got was “Shoot the hostage.”
uzza August 1st, 2014 at 01:54
Sure you did.
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 13:34
Actually, Hamas is not killing innocent bystanders. So far theyve killed a few dozen people, and they were all IDF soldiers. Whereas 80% of the people Israel has killed are innocent, unarmed civilians, 30% of them children.
R.J. Carter July 31st, 2014 at 09:04
If only there were a way to kill Hamas without having to go through the children they hide behind.
floyd[@]greenfloyd.org July 31st, 2014 at 09:33
I think there is a way. What do you think aobut a US led evacuation of non-combatants?
R.J. Carter July 31st, 2014 at 09:49
I think too many people would get up in arms (metaphorically speaking) about U.S. “boots on the ground” in the Israeli conflict. Also there’s the matter of where to evacuate them to.
I like the idea, mind you. I’m just looking at the practicalities of it.
I’m sure Mossad has some equivalent of special forces who could do something more surgical.
floyd[@]greenfloyd.org July 31st, 2014 at 11:36
I’m glad you like the idea. I guess it comes back to the question, “Who really wants to save Gaza?” I mean, what if we asked Israel. What would that conversation look like?
Ring ring: “Hello?”
“Hello Benjamin, this is Obama. Say look, we had this idea to help you and the non-combatants in Gaza. Would you mind if we brought in some ships and get the women, children, sick, injured and elderly out of harms way? You know, all this carnage is making us both look bad.
“What, oh you think it’s a good idea. And yes, you are right, it would probably be a fatal blow to Hamas, without human shields to hide behind, they would not stand a chance.
“So, bye-bye and please say hello to the wife and kids.”
Of course we’d announce our intentions to Hamas, so the President gets back on the horn…
Ring ring, ring ring, ring ring… this goes on for some time so feel free to get up, run an errand, etc.
Finally the phone picks-up:
“Yes? Hello? This is President Obama. Is this Hamas?”
“Death to America! We can’t come to the phone right now, it’s the fighting season and all our operators are currently busy digging tunnels, stashing bombs, firing rockets and otherwise preoccupied with Death to Israel! Press 1 if you’d like to transfer your call to our leadership currently waging holy war from their penthouse suite in Qatar. Press 2 if you like to join the Hamas Martyrs Club where the after-life is the only life. Press 3 if you…”
Exasperated the President hangs-up, leans back and sighs, “Well at least they can’t say I didn’t try to warn them.”
Bunya July 31st, 2014 at 14:00
Oh come on! Netanyahu is no saint by any stretch of the imagination. He’s like the Dick Cheney of the middle east. I remember when he was looking for a reason – any reason – to bomb Iran.
floyd[@]greenfloyd.org August 1st, 2014 at 02:32
Sainthood has nothing to do with it, although I think Netanyahu is much smater than Cheney, or you, or me. He enjoys around 85% public approval in Israel and a majorty here in America.
Frankly I’m not so interested in the whole Iran thing now we have a cease-fire and perhaps an opprotunity to save hundreds of thousands of innocent lives. I submit that should be our (America’s and humanity’s) priority at the moment.
Bunya August 1st, 2014 at 16:17
Intelligence has nothing to do with it either. It’s all about salesmanship. Now, Cheney’s not the smartest tool in the shed, but he was able to start a war simply by selling the WMD “smokin’ gun/mushroom cloud” fairy tale to the American people. Take, for example, organized religion. A tax exempt corporation was able to convince the masses that there’s an invisible man in the sky, giving people instructions on what to believe, followed by threats of eternal damnation for non-believers. Good salesmanship passed down through the ages.
As for disinterest in the whole Iran thing, this shouldn’t be so easily overlooked. It gives one insight as to Netanyahu’s mindset. I certainly wouldn’t want a war monger like John McCain or LIndsey Graham running the country because, judging by their idealogy, we could be looking at another war.
I’m not saying everything is Netanyahu’s fault, but I’m sure he’s not sporting clean hands.
floyd[@]greenfloyd.org August 2nd, 2014 at 00:01
Dear Bunya,
I am not suggesting we overlook anything or that anybody has clean hands. Although you did reignite my imagination, what would America look like today, if 9/11 had never happened? Or, perhaps more succinctly, if Bush/Cheny had not gotten into the White House?
But that’s neither here or now. For the purpose of discussion I would like to remain focused on current events and do what little I can to help stop the fighting and save innocent lives.
uzza August 1st, 2014 at 01:53
One thing we can all “agree, we should all try to avoid giving offense.” Shi–it.
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 13:41
The Mossad would just murder them all and dump their bodies in the sea
R.J. Carter July 31st, 2014 at 19:31
If we’re talking about the Hamas rocket launching people, I’m cool with that.
Keyser Soze August 1st, 2014 at 03:31
80% of the people Israel is killing NOW are innocent civilians. I can only imagine that percentage would go UP if they were given even MORE leeway to engage in mass murder.
floyd[@]greenfloyd.org July 31st, 2014 at 12:56
OK, that’s certainly an obvious and important question. Yet, I’d like to emphasize the potential impact of the US stepping-up and putting this idea in front of everybody concerned. Of course we have to make good on any promises. It will raise eyebrows, turn heads and maybe even change some minds about what America really stands for in this troubled world of ours.
I need to consult some maps but can’t do it right now. However, off the top of my head I think Egypt, the Sinai, would be the most logical. It’s close by, already shares a border with Gaza and the Egyptian government claims to support the Palestinians (not sure what that means though)… Nonetheless it would be messy, risky and certainly uncomfortable as well as expensive.
So, who wants to save Gaza?
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 13:40
Well wherever they send them, dont tell Netanyahu where it is. He’ll just bomb the refugees
mea_mark July 31st, 2014 at 14:03
You are kinda pushing it, please tone it down a little.
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 14:07
Oh, my bad. If i wasnt showing the appropriate amount of respect to the mass murdering, white supremacist leader of a genocidal apartheid state currently carpet bombing scores of innocent civilians with white phosphorous and flagrantly violating 60 some-odd UN violations in their never-ending quest to wipe out an entire population of literal Semites, i deeply apologize. I meant no offense.
R.J. Carter July 31st, 2014 at 14:19
You mad bro?
mea_mark July 31st, 2014 at 14:25
He might really be mad if he gets banned and everything he commented disappears. Trying to piss off the moderators is usually not a good idea.
R.J. Carter July 31st, 2014 at 14:51
He’s emotionally connected to his side, which is understandable. But it’s at the sacrifice of rational discussion. I’ve been where he’s coming from before — about 13 years and 1 month ago.
Anomaly 100 July 31st, 2014 at 18:40
Stuff happens.
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 17:29
Not at all. Im simply offering a 100% sincere apology to anyone i offended by insulting our nearest and dearest ally, the State of Israel, who is merely Defending Itself from all of the thousands of evil, bloodthirsty, tiny little Palestinian babies, asleep in their cribs dreaming up terror plots against Jews, the worlds most horribly oppressed subclass of Rich White Europeans.
danah gaz July 31st, 2014 at 23:46
Yeah. Ethnic cleansing makes me pretty mad, too, as it happens.
R.J. Carter August 1st, 2014 at 09:51
That’s why there’s such an outcry over Mosul.
danah gaz August 1st, 2014 at 12:44
SQUIRREL!
R.J. Carter August 1st, 2014 at 13:18
Same nuts, different tree.
uzza July 31st, 2014 at 11:50
That sums up the problem. Your goal is to kill people. You are willing to kill innocent children to do it, and like every abuser, cry that you have no choice. It’s a matter of priorities.
Truth is, there are plenty of other choices, but those options require you to stop playng macho tough guy and your ego won’t allow you to consider them.
Instead, your side kills innocent bystanders to strike at them, while their side kills innocent bystanders to strike at you.
Children die, but no one questions your manliness.
R.J. Carter July 31st, 2014 at 12:06
Uzza, first of all I’m not firing rockets into Gaza, so I’m not killing any innocent children. Nor am I grabbing up innocent children to hold in front of me while I shoot into Israel.
My statement is actually a wish that Israel could do this without going through the children — but the fact remains that Israel didn’t put the children there; the cowards in Hamas are keeping them there as hostages and shields.
If someone is shooting at you, holding a child in front of them, I’d love to hear what your other options are that don’t entail letting yourself get shot.
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 13:36
The only people using innocent children as human shields is Israel and the IDF: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-report-accuses-israeli-forces-of-using-palestinian-children-as-human-shields-abusing-children-in-custody/
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.530993
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/survivors-massacre-palestinians.html
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 13:37
This is how Israeli (and ALL right-wing) propaganda works: accuse your victim of the thing YOU are doing to THEM
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 13:39
Heres a photo of Israelis tying a 13 year old boy to the front of a military vehicle as a human shield: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/dailymail_humanshield.jpg
And yet you have the audacity to accuse Palestinian children of being human shields for Hamas, simply by living in their own homes, going to their local schools, and playing on empty beaches.
R.J. Carter July 31st, 2014 at 14:23
…from which Hamas is launching rockets. (Not rocks… rock-ets.)
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 17:34
What post are you replying to? Are you saying that Israelis are JUSTIFIED in using Palestinian children as human shields for their vehicles?
Where are you saying Hamas is launching rockets from? Israel is leveling schools, hospitals, and entire apartment complexes. How the hell do you shoot a rocket from inside a building? If someone in the United States was firing explosives from an apartment, would Obama be justified in carpet bombing the entire city block? Or would you expect him to send a SWAT team in to arrest the person actually involved, without killing the surrounding civilian populace?
uzza July 31st, 2014 at 14:37
I don’t think you do. If you did, you would look at all the millions of examples where other options have been used, and model your position on that. You choose instead to ignore them, just as you completely ignored my point and merely reitereated that your goal is to kill people, not to save lives.
R.J. Carter July 31st, 2014 at 14:52
I don’t know of millions of examples of how to take out someone who is using an innocent life as a human shield.
I did a google on it, and all I got was “Shoot the hostage.”
uzza August 1st, 2014 at 01:54
Sure you did.
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 13:34
Actually, Hamas is not killing innocent bystanders. So far theyve killed a few dozen people, and they were all IDF soldiers. Whereas 80% of the people Israel has killed are innocent, unarmed civilians, 30% of them children.
Budda July 31st, 2014 at 10:40
This has been ongoing since 1948. I see no civilized solution to it.
Sad.
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 13:32
Well, Israel could stop indiscriminately mass murdering civilians, for a start.
Budda July 31st, 2014 at 16:09
True.
Maggie May Bowen August 1st, 2014 at 12:31
Very true.
Budda July 31st, 2014 at 10:40
This has been ongoing since 1948. I see no civilized solution to it.
Sad.
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 13:32
Well, Israel could stop indiscriminately mass murdering civilians, for a start.
Budda July 31st, 2014 at 16:09
True.
Maggie May Bowen August 1st, 2014 at 12:31
Very true.
Keyser Soze July 31st, 2014 at 13:32
Obama will continue licking Netanyahu’s boots until his own tongue runs as red with blood as the streets of Gaza
Pistol-Packing July 31st, 2014 at 14:17
Since the creation of the state, by the UN. Arab nations have been determined to destroy Israel. One day after the official formation in 1948, 1967, 1973, First intifada, Second Intifada, Hezbellah, Hamas, Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc.. etc… There is no real partner for peace. Until you get a universal resolution amongst the UN and the Arab League of Israel’s right to exist. You will never have peace.
Hamas was elected by the people, so they share in the blame with what is happening. I dont buy the argument that Israel is an illegal occupier. When you are attacked time and time again. You are going to do what is necessary. Isn’t it funny, that after the West bank was captured from “JORDAN” during the 67 war. That the never demanded it back.. Why is that?
Until this changes, nothing will change.
http://youtu.be/8fSvyv0urTE
danah gaz July 31st, 2014 at 23:44
Wow, a pro-genocide right winger? Gee, Never seen one of those before.
Pistol-Packing August 1st, 2014 at 06:48
WOW… Someone who does not know history…
danah gaz August 1st, 2014 at 11:16
*pats you on your head*
Bless your heart.
Pistol-Packing August 1st, 2014 at 11:46
AWWWWWWW, I have been Blessed… Thanks…..
Pistol-Packing July 31st, 2014 at 14:17
Since the creation of the state, by the UN. Arab nations have been determined to destroy Israel. One day after the official formation in 1948, 1967, 1973, First intifada, Second Intifada, Hezbellah, Hamas, Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc.. etc… There is no real partner for peace. Until you get a universal resolution amongst the UN and the Arab League of Israel’s right to exist. You will never have peace.
Hamas was elected by the people, so they share in the blame with what is happening. I dont buy the argument that Israel is an illegal occupier. When you are attacked time and time again. You are going to do what is necessary. Isn’t it funny, that after the West bank was captured from “JORDAN” during the 67 war. That the never demanded it back.. Why is that?
Until this changes, nothing will change.
http://youtu.be/8fSvyv0urTE
danah gaz July 31st, 2014 at 23:44
Wow, a pro-genocide right winger? Gee, Never seen one of those before.
Pistol-Packing August 1st, 2014 at 06:48
WOW… Someone who does not know history…
danah gaz August 1st, 2014 at 11:16
*pats you on your head*
Bless your heart.
Pistol-Packing August 1st, 2014 at 11:46
AWWWWWWW, I have been Blessed… Thanks…..
danah gaz July 31st, 2014 at 23:43
This fits the UN definition of ethnic cleansing. That’s because that’s precisely what this is. Let’s stop calling it a conflict and be honest.
Pistol-Packing August 1st, 2014 at 11:46
if this was ethnic cleansing, you would see a firing line of soldiers walking through and killing everybody indiscriminately.
danah gaz August 1st, 2014 at 12:00
Nope, if it was ethnic cleansing, you’d see mass murder, targeting of women and children, and stealing their land and homes.
Oh, wait…
I think I’ll stick the internationally agreed upon definition of ethnic cleansing over that of some anonymous Internet troll, but thanks.
R.J. Carter August 1st, 2014 at 12:06
Well, it is the stated desire of Israel that they wipe Palestine from the face of the Earth.
Or do I have that backwards?
Pistol-Packing August 1st, 2014 at 12:08
You have it backwards, but try explaining that to to the Dimwit above you…
danah gaz August 1st, 2014 at 12:45
Random capitalization makes you look so smart!
Maggie May Bowen August 1st, 2014 at 12:30
I couldn’t agree more
danah gaz July 31st, 2014 at 23:43
This fits the UN definition of ethnic cleansing. That’s because that’s precisely what this is. Let’s stop calling it a conflict and be honest.
Pistol-Packing August 1st, 2014 at 11:46
if this was ethnic cleansing, you would see a firing line of soldiers walking through and killing everybody indiscriminately.
danah gaz August 1st, 2014 at 12:00
Nope, if it was ethnic cleansing, you’d see mass murder, targeting of women and children, and stealing their land and homes.
Oh, wait…
I think I’ll stick the internationally agreed upon definition of ethnic cleansing over that of some anonymous Internet troll, but thanks.
R.J. Carter August 1st, 2014 at 12:06
Well, it is the stated desire of Israel that they wipe Palestine from the face of the Earth.
Or do I have that backwards?
Pistol-Packing August 1st, 2014 at 12:08
You have it backwards, but try explaining that to to the Dimwit above you…
danah gaz August 1st, 2014 at 12:45
Random capitalization makes you look so smart!
Maggie May Bowen August 1st, 2014 at 12:30
I couldn’t agree more
greenfloyd August 1st, 2014 at 02:32
Sainthood has nothing to do with it, although I think Netanyahu is much smater than Cheney, or you, or me. He enjoys around 85% public approval in Israel and a majorty here in America.
Frankly I’m not so interested in the whole Iran thing now we have a cease-fire and perhaps an opprotunity to save hundreds of thousands of innocent lives. I submit that should be our (America’s and humanity’s) priority at the moment.
Bunya August 1st, 2014 at 16:17
Intelligence has nothing to do with it either. It’s all about salesmanship. Now, Cheney’s not the smartest tool in the shed, but he was able to start a war simply by selling the WMD “smokin’ gun/mushroom cloud” fairy tale to the American people. Take, for example, organized religion. A tax exempt corporation was able to convince the masses that there’s an invisible man in the sky, giving people instructions on what to believe, followed by threats of eternal damnation for non-believers. Good salesmanship passed down through the ages.
As for disinterest in the whole Iran thing, this shouldn’t be so easily overlooked. It gives one insight as to Netanyahu’s mindset. I certainly wouldn’t want a war monger like John McCain or LIndsey Graham running the country because, judging by their idealogy, we could be looking at another war.
I’m not saying everything is Netanyahu’s fault, but I’m sure he’s not sporting clean hands.
greenfloyd August 2nd, 2014 at 00:01
Dear Bunya,
I am not suggesting we overlook anything or that anybody has clean hands. Although you did reignite my imagination, what would America look like today, if 9/11 had never happened? Or, perhaps more succinctly, if Bush/Cheny had not gotten into the White House?
But that’s neither here or now. For the purpose of discussion I would like to remain focused on current events and do what little I can to help stop the fighting and save innocent lives.
Maggie May Bowen August 1st, 2014 at 12:36
The reason that the right wing in the U.S. isn’t saying anything is because it’s sanctioned in the old testament. I can’t remember which book maybe exodus but when the jews were promised by “God” the land we know call Israel they were commanded to kill everyone and everything except the trees. Can’t kill the trees I remember that part of it vividly. The land was to be cleansed with the blood of the people that inhabited the land.
This is why I’m an atheist this God seems like a dick!
Maggie May Bowen August 1st, 2014 at 12:36
The reason that the right wing in the U.S. isn’t saying anything is because it’s sanctioned in the old testament. I can’t remember which book maybe exodus but when the jews were promised by “God” the land we know call Israel they were commanded to kill everyone and everything except the trees. Can’t kill the trees I remember that part of it vividly. The land was to be cleansed with the blood of the people that inhabited the land.
This is why I’m an atheist this God seems like a dick!