Presbyterians Vote To Allow Same-Sex Marriage
Click here for reuse options!The church also voted, by an overwhelming majority, to change the language about marriage in the church constitution to “two persons” from a “man and a woman,” according to More Light Presbyterians, a group that supports gay rights.
To take effect, that change would need to be approved by a majority of 172 local presbyteries, which have a year to vote, the church said in a statement.
However, starting Saturday, pastors can go ahead and begin marrying same-sex couples in the states that allow it, according to Toya Richards Jackson, a church spokeswoman.
Copyright 2014 Liberaland
By: Cheston Catalano
Cheston Catalano is a Kentucky-based journalist whose work has been featured in the Chattanooga Times Free Press and the Clarksville Leaf Chronicle. He is a long-time contributor to Liberaland.
71 responses to Presbyterians Vote To Allow Same-Sex Marriage
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arc99 June 20th, 2014 at 11:39
At various points of human history, the prohibitions listed in Leviticus such as a man shaving, or people eating shellfish have been determined by a group of HUMAN BEINGS, to be no longer a sin.
This is no different and is a welcome addition to the culture of the 21st century.
arc99 June 20th, 2014 at 11:39
At various points of human history, the prohibitions listed in Leviticus such as a man shaving, or people eating shellfish have been determined by a group of HUMAN BEINGS, to be no longer a sin.
This is no different and is a welcome addition to the culture of the 21st century.
Bunya June 20th, 2014 at 13:26
This is great. I heard more and more people are moving away from the Catholic church mainly for their draconian stance on … everything. Too bad for them, torturing heretics is no longer acceptable, or legal.
Bunya June 20th, 2014 at 13:26
This is great. I heard more and more people are moving away from the Catholic church mainly for their draconian stance on … everything. Too bad for them, torturing heretics is no longer acceptable, or legal.
Bob Waas June 20th, 2014 at 17:28
This denomination of Presbyterian is the secular progressive liberal “anything goes” group and NOT the Presbyterian Church of America (PCA) whose interpretation of the bible has not changed. God was very explicit regarding the sinful nature of homosexuality; as well as adultery, stealing and all other sin. There is no wrong in the bible for the application of moral relativism. Sin is sin, no exceptions. But, God loves a repented sinner.
Obewon June 20th, 2014 at 17:59
“Sin is sin, no exceptions.”-You’re going to Hell for sure! ‘Ground birds do not eat them’-KFC? ”Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor”-Wass lies every day. ‘Wearing mixed fibers’-do you wear socks? ‘Eating shellfish’-Hellbound! Next Stop for Waas is Cenobite City… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lzC0aIVFvw
Bob Waas June 20th, 2014 at 19:31
Let me know if you ever want to have an intelligent debate about the existence of God.
Obewon June 20th, 2014 at 19:45
You’re well proven a 100% hypocrite who is in league with Satin!
Bob Waas June 20th, 2014 at 21:29
I guess you don’t want to have an intelligent debate; just more of your unsubstantiated accusations.
A lie is what Clinton said when he said, “I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky.”
Exactly what is Satin?
Shades June 20th, 2014 at 22:00
I’d love to have an intelligent debate. Do you know someone?
craig7120 June 20th, 2014 at 19:56
LOL @ “But, God loves a repented sinner”
Sounds like something a sinner would be wishing. Lucky for man god creates loopholes, eh?
Bob Waas June 20th, 2014 at 22:30
“On the contrary, salvation is an appeal to God for cleansing from sin, forgiveness, and repentance so that we might not sin. This appeal is a heartfelt confession of our hopelessness before God and an acceptance of Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf.”
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
God loves a repented sinner is the correct term; but forgiveness is given with the idea that you will not continue in sin. An example was when “Jesus Delivers the Adulterous Woman…10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”
Notice He didn’t say you have a free get out of sin card.
arc99 June 20th, 2014 at 21:50
PC USA is not a secular organization, it is a religious organization of Presbyterians. It is not “anything goes”, they have very specific values to support their beliefs.
You right wingers constantly whine about not being respected. Well if you want respect you have to extend it. Lying about an organization that you happen to disagree with does nothing other than motivate people to direct the same kind of hostility back at you, that you so freely dispense about people who dare to have a different opinion than you.
Bob Waas June 20th, 2014 at 22:21
My comment was to distinguish the difference between the USA and the PCA. The USA is not following the teachings of the bible, therefore are adopting secular behavior, which is progressive and liberal. No hostility, just pointing out the obvious. You should be happy, you have a church that more closely aligns with your own beliefs. It just doesn’t align with a Christian’s belief.
Bunya June 23rd, 2014 at 14:19
well then maybe Christianity should consider becoming a bit more compassionate and understanding – just like Jesus.
Bob Waas June 23rd, 2014 at 18:47
Exactly what do you have in mind? Christians are already known as the most charitable people in the world; with time and money.
Upper-Income and Religious Americans Report Highest Giving and Volunteering
“Naturally there are significant differences in self-reported charitable giving by household income, with 95% of those in households earning $75,000 or more saying they gave money to a religious organization or other charity in the past 12 months. This drops to 86% among middle-income earners and 67% among those earning less than $30,000. Upper-income Americans are also more likely to say they volunteered.
Furthermore, Christians are more likely than those with no religious affiliation to report that they made donations and volunteered time, and Protestants are at least slightly more likely than Catholics to report higher rates of donating and volunteering. Similarly, those who attend church or another religious institution regularly are much more likely to say they have donated and volunteered in the past year. These differences are driven largely by religious respondents (weekly churchgoers, Christians, and Protestants, specifically), who are more likely to say they donated money or time to a religious organization in the past year. At the same time, religious Americans are just as likely as nonreligious Americans to report nonreligious giving and volunteering.”
http://www.gallup.com/poll/166250/americans-practice-charitable-giving-volunteerism.aspx
Bunya June 24th, 2014 at 09:44
” Christians are already known as the most charitable people in the world…”
And the most violent, and the biggest hypocrites.
“Upper-Income and Religious Americans Report Highest Giving and Volunteering”
Of course they do. How else would we know how wonderful they are if they don’t tell us?
“Upper-income Americans are also more likely to say they volunteered.”
Always searching for that elusive recognition.
“, Christians are more likely to report that they made donations”
Well duh! How else is the IRS gonna know they have a tax write-off coming?
Bob Waas June 24th, 2014 at 21:09
Maybe those in your circle of friends behave like that, but not mine. Matthew 6:1-4
Bunya June 25th, 2014 at 09:56
Of course not, Bob. We’re all very well aware that you’re our moral superior because you remind us daily. Lord knows you can’t be seen hanging around the “least among us”.
Oh sure, in public, you put on a great show of kindness and compassionate for everyone to see, but in private, when nobody’s around, I’m sure you have some kinky skeletons in your closet. That’s not an insult. That’s behaving like today’s “love the poor in public, hate ’em in private” Christian.
Bob Waas June 25th, 2014 at 14:12
Wrong again. Your view is the one you’ve been brainwashed to believe because you’re told it is impossible for conservative Christians to put into action what secular progressive liberals only preach.
“Liberals give themselves far too much credit just for being liberal. To many liberals, all one needs to do to be wise, intelligent, compassionate, open minded, and sensitive is to BE LIBERAL. In other words, many of the good things about a person spring not from his actions, but from the ideology he holds.
This has an obvious appeal. You can be a diehard misogynist, but plausibly call yourself a feminist, hate blacks, but accuse others of racism, have a sub-par IQ and be an intellectual, give nothing to charity and be compassionate, etc.,etc., and all you have to do is call yourself a liberal. It’s a shortcut to virtue much like the corrupt old idea of religious indulgences.
Why live a life of virtue when you could live a sinful life and buy your way into heaven? If you’re a liberal, why actually live a life of virtue when you can merely call
yourself a liberal and get credit for being virtuous, even when you’ve done nothing to earn it?” – John Hawkins
Bunya June 26th, 2014 at 10:14
I’m brainwashed? You’re the one who believe th invisible man in the sky is going to reward you after you die if you believe whatever they tell you to believe. And then you have the balls to criticize Muslims, gays. atheists and liberals? You’re an idiot.
Run along now Bob. You don’t want to be late for the “war on Christmas”. It’s only 6 months away and will be here before you know it.
Bunya June 26th, 2014 at 10:20
And one more thing. I hear they’re opening up a new Planned Parenthood clinic in California. Here’s your chance to become a real hero for your god. Grab yer shootin’ iron and be the first one on your block to kill a doctor or a poor elderly woman going in for her yearly exam – in Jesus’ name, of course.
Bob Waas June 26th, 2014 at 21:16
There is evidence to prove the existence of God. No one is forced to believe. You’re confusing that with Islam. Christians are invited, but not forced. I said you’re brainwashed because if you were thinking for yourself you would see the evidence of Christians going around the world to help the less fortunate.
Franklin Graham’s Samaritan’s Purse is a good example of outreach. They usually get to disaster areas before the Red Cross.
This past week my wife and I served at a Vacation Bible School. All week the kids would bring in their change; some brought in their whole piggy bank and emptied in the collection bucket. What was the money for? Clean water for the people of India.
As for your comment regarding PP, Christians don’t advocate violence against those whose beliefs are in opposition to ours and if someone does do something stupid (like the guy who killed Tiller the abortion doctor) we denounce it. To say that one believes certain behavior is sinful is not the same thing as criticizing them for bad behavior or job performance; like Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton in the WH and Obama’s MIA management style.
As for atheists, I don’t force them to believe, I criticize them for forcing their beliefs or lack thereof on other religious holidays. The don’t live and let live. Muslims have not shown me any endearing values that I would want to embrace. They have contributed nothing to the founding of America or our culture; instead, they move from deplorable living conditions and oppressive governments to a free country and then try to make it like the dysfunctional hole in the earth they just came from. Check France and England as examples.
Bunya June 27th, 2014 at 10:13
“There is evidence to prove the existence of God…”
Can I see your proof?
“You’re confusing that with Islam”
You apparently know nothing about Islam. I guess it’s much easier for you to condemn them rather than work to understand them.
“Christians going around the world to help the less fortunate.”
And of course nobody else does that. Only Christians.
“Franklin Graham’s Samaritan’s Purse”
I’m sure he’s much less generous when it comes to extending his purse to gays.
“This past week my wife and I served at a Vacation Bible School”
Well good for you!! Give yourself a HUGE pat on the back – and take an ad out in the newspaper proclaiming what a kind and generouse person you are.
” Christians don’t advocate violence”
Spare me your feigned concern. Nobody was more happy that Dr. Tiller was murdered that the Christian right. Don’t believe me? Check out some of those religious sites. They are dripping with hatred.
“I criticize them for forcing their beliefs”
Hmmm. Project much. I’ll admit, you so-called “chrischuns” are experts at projecting your hatred onto others.
“Muslims have not shown me any endearing values that I would want to embrace.”
Before you trash someone, perhaps you should study history so you can better understand why they’ve come to possess those values of which you disapprove.
Bob Waas June 27th, 2014 at 22:37
You are experiencing some comprehension issues right now. My mentioning of Vacation Bible School was not to pat myself on the back, but to applaud the children for caring about others and giving their own money.
There is more evidence to prove the existence of God than there is to prove there is no God. If you are seriously interested, I would be happy to share some with you.
Do you have any evidence that Franklin Graham’s Samaritan’s Purse ever discriminated against anyone, ever. Do you think when they bring supplies and food to those in need they check their sexual orientation? If you ask him is homosexuality a sin he will most certainly say yes. That doesn’t mean he treats them differently and you’ll never find where he did.
I stated that Christians go around the world helping others because you insinuated that Christians only do this for show. You said others are doing as much; I didn’t say they weren’t.
As for Islam, I see enough each and every day all around the world with displays of their barbaric behavior in the name of allah. Their Quran teaches hate for all non-Muslims and they prove it each and every day. They claim to be a religion of peace; but they are anything but. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm
Btw, I went to a seminar on Islam to get a better understanding of their religion. When people asked about what the Quran says about the Infidel, the speaker said, we have different versions, so you must have read the wrong one.
Here’s a guy who grew up in England and saw first hand what Islam has done to the country. Check what he has to say.
http://www.fortressoffaith.org/blog/author/tomwallace/
Please feel free to keep boasting how great Islam is, but check this site before you do. http://www.jihadwatch.org/#
Bunya June 28th, 2014 at 17:37
And you keep sitting on your high horse, hating everybody that doesn’t believe exactly as you do. I’m sure your savior will reward you greatly for your contempt of your fellow man after you die. And if you expire before I do, don’t save me a seat in your hereafter. I can’t stand the heat.
But while you’re here, keep putting on that big show for all to see. Show everybody how wonderful, compassionate and caring you are to those less fortunate. Make sure everybody takes notice of how you discriminate against no one. And at the end of the day, go home to your lily white house in your upscale white neighborhood, take a hot shower and wash off anything reminiscent of poor people, or Jews, or Muslims, or blacks, or illegals, or gays. Grab your glass of bourbon, sit in front of your big screen TV, tuned to Fox “News”, and complain about how lazy the poor are, how cheap the Jews are, how barbaric the Muslims are, how filthy the illegals are and how disgusting the gays are.
You charlatans deserve nothing but contempt. I have more respect for the KKK than you frauds. At least they show their true colors. We know exactly what to expect from them. You, on the other hand, remind me of a Jim Jones. So charismatic, so Hitler-esque. You put on a great facade in public, but hide and evil, hate-filled heart.
Bob Waas June 28th, 2014 at 20:49
It’s good you get out all your aggression by falsely accusing others for a behavior you yourself exhibit. You list all of these issues so eloquently that I’m sure you have some personal experience with them. “For the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders…”
Considering your hate laced diatribe I would say you did a good job of sharing all you innermost hatred towards others.
Bunya June 30th, 2014 at 10:26
Interesting. For somebody who vehemently despises Muslims, gays and those who you perceive to be “sinners”, you sure have a penchant for accusing others of exhibiting the same vile behavior you, yourself, display. But I’m not surprised. You holier than thou chrischuns are notorious for projecting their hatred onto others. I use the term “chrischuns” because one has to be a follower of Christ in order to be called a Christian – not just a fan.
Bob Waas June 30th, 2014 at 20:31
I don’t despise Muslims, I just don’t trust them. They hate the western lifestyle. Muslims kill Christians everyday. Do you know of any Christians accused of killing Muslims?
I certainly don’t despise gays.
You on the other hand have much hate for Christians and make false accusations about those whom you do not know.
My former pastor had a gay man come to his office and ask him what the bible said about homosexuality. He told him it is a sin, but God loves him anyway. The man would show up every few months to ask the same question and the pastor gave the same answer. Over time they became friends and when the gay man’s partner died from aids, the pastor conducted the funeral.
You think that disagreeing with someone because of the choices they make is a cause to be hateful; in my circle that just isn’t so; but apparently in yours it is SOP
Bunya June 30th, 2014 at 21:04
“I don’t despise Muslims, I just don’t trust them”
LOL! Oh that’s a good one, Bob. You should use it every time you trash Muslims.
“I certainly don’t despise gays.”
Of course not! You love them, but you disapprove of their (ahem) “Lifestyle choice”. By the way, when did you discover you were straight? Is that your lifestyle choice? If so, why is yours better than theirs?
“You on the other hand have much hate for Christians”
You got me there, Bob. Especially the sanctimonious do-gooders who kill doctors, bomb clinics and trash gays, all in Jesus’ name.
” He told him it is a sin, but God loves him anyway.”
Now I’m confused. I thought your god had a special place for sinners, full of fire and brimstone. If that’s how your god shows his love for sinners,well, let’s just say I’ll stick with my God.
“…in my circle that just isn’t so…”
Keep reminding us, Bob. Maybe one day you’ll be successful in convincing yourself.
Bob Waas July 1st, 2014 at 14:38
Gays don’t need my approval or disapproval, they only need God’s approval. God does have a place for those who refuse to repent from their sins; it’s called hell.
It’s funny when folks like you say it is wrong to condemn all Muslims for the actions of a few; but you condemn all Christians for the actions of a few.
You didn’t answer the previous question, “Do you know of any Christians accused of killing Muslims, while crying out ‘God is great’?”
Bunya July 1st, 2014 at 15:14
If gays don’t need your approval, stop judging them, If your god has a special place for the unrepentent, great! Feel free believe what you will, but don’t condemn others to the same fate. Remember, not everyone worships the same narcissistic, vindictive god that you do.
I also find it interesting that you, yourself, would condemn a whole religion for the actions of a few
“”Do you know of any Christians accused of killing Muslims…”
I can’s say for sure what, if anything, was said by the Christians during the crusades because I wasn’t around to hear their battle cries. However, it IS common knowledge that Christians killed hundreds of thousands of Curds and Muslims simply for religious purposes. Of course, I would be remiss if I didn’t mention the famous “inquisition”, which resulted in the deaths of thousands of Muslims (for heresy) by way of brutal torture. And let’s not forget the reason we invaded Iraq was under strict instruction by God thru Dubya.
Do you think that perhaps, maybe the Muslims are getting pretty pissed off at our arrogent attitude?
Bob Waas June 20th, 2014 at 17:28
This denomination of Presbyterian is the secular progressive liberal “anything goes” group and NOT the Presbyterian Church of America (PCA) whose interpretation of the bible has not changed. God was very explicit regarding the sinful nature of homosexuality; as well as adultery, stealing and all other sin. There is no wrong in the bible for the application of moral relativism. Sin is sin, no exceptions. But, God loves a repented sinner.
Obewon June 20th, 2014 at 17:59
“Sin is sin, no exceptions.”-You’re going to Hell for sure! ‘Ground birds do not eat them’-KFC? ”Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor”-Wass lies every day. ‘Wearing mixed fibers’-do you wear socks? ‘Eating shellfish’-Hellbound! Next Stop for Waas is Cenobite City… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lzC0aIVFvw
Bob Waas June 20th, 2014 at 19:31
Let me know if you ever want to have an intelligent debate about the existence of God.
Obewon June 20th, 2014 at 19:45
You’re well proven a 100% hypocrite who is in league with Satin! That’s why you continue to lie with nearly every post in servitude to your one true master and lord the devil!
Bob Waas June 20th, 2014 at 21:29
I guess you don’t want to have an intelligent debate; just more of your unsubstantiated accusations.
A lie is what Clinton said when he said, “I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky.”
Exactly what is Satin?
Shades June 20th, 2014 at 22:00
I’d love to have an intelligent debate. Do you know someone?
craig7120 June 20th, 2014 at 19:56
LOL @ “But, God loves a repented sinner”
Sounds like something a sinner would be wishing. Lucky for man god creates loopholes, eh?
Bob Waas June 20th, 2014 at 22:30
“On the contrary, salvation is an appeal to God for cleansing from sin, forgiveness, and repentance so that we might not sin. This appeal is a heartfelt confession of our hopelessness before God and an acceptance of Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf.”
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
God loves a repented sinner is the correct term; but forgiveness is given with the idea that you will not continue in sin. An example was when “Jesus Delivers the Adulterous Woman…10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”
Notice He didn’t say you have a free get out of sin card.
arc99 June 20th, 2014 at 21:50
PC USA is not a secular organization, it is a religious organization of Presbyterians. It is not “anything goes”, they have very specific values to support their beliefs.
You right wingers constantly whine about not being respected. Well if you want respect you have to extend it. Lying about an organization that you happen to disagree with does nothing other than motivate people to direct the same kind of hostility back at you, that you so freely dispense about people who dare to have a different opinion than you.
Bob Waas June 20th, 2014 at 22:21
My comment was to distinguish the difference between the USA and the PCA. The USA is not following the teachings of the bible, therefore are adopting secular behavior, which is progressive and liberal. No hostility, just pointing out the obvious. You should be happy, you have a church that more closely aligns with your own beliefs. It just doesn’t align with a Christian’s belief.
Bunya June 23rd, 2014 at 14:19
well then maybe Christianity should consider becoming a bit more compassionate and understanding – just like Jesus.
Bob Waas June 23rd, 2014 at 18:47
Exactly what do you have in mind? Christians are already known as the most charitable people in the world; with time and money.
Upper-Income and Religious Americans Report Highest Giving and Volunteering
“Naturally there are significant differences in self-reported charitable giving by household income, with 95% of those in households earning $75,000 or more saying they gave money to a religious organization or other charity in the past 12 months. This drops to 86% among middle-income earners and 67% among those earning less than $30,000. Upper-income Americans are also more likely to say they volunteered.
Furthermore, Christians are more likely than those with no religious affiliation to report that they made donations and volunteered time, and Protestants are at least slightly more likely than Catholics to report higher rates of donating and volunteering. Similarly, those who attend church or another religious institution regularly are much more likely to say they have donated and volunteered in the past year. These differences are driven largely by religious respondents (weekly churchgoers, Christians, and Protestants, specifically), who are more likely to say they donated money or time to a religious organization in the past year. At the same time, religious Americans are just as likely as nonreligious Americans to report nonreligious giving and volunteering.”
http://www.gallup.com/poll/166250/americans-practice-charitable-giving-volunteerism.aspx
Bunya June 24th, 2014 at 09:44
” Christians are already known as the most charitable people in the world…”
And the most violent, and the biggest hypocrites.
“Upper-Income and Religious Americans Report Highest Giving and Volunteering”
Of course they do. How else would we know how wonderful they are if they don’t tell us?
“Upper-income Americans are also more likely to say they volunteered.”
Always searching for that elusive recognition.
“, Christians are more likely to report that they made donations”
Well duh! How else is the IRS gonna know they have a tax write-off coming?
Bob Waas June 24th, 2014 at 21:09
Maybe those in your circle of friends behave like that, but not mine. Matthew 6:1-4
Bunya June 25th, 2014 at 09:56
Of course not, Bob. We’re all very well aware that you’re our moral superior because you remind us daily. Lord knows you can’t be seen hanging around the “least among us”.
Oh sure, in public, you put on a great show of kindness and compassionate for everyone to see, but in private, when nobody’s around, I’m sure you have some kinky skeletons in your closet. That’s not an insult. That’s behaving like today’s “love the poor in public, hate ’em in private” Christian.
Bob Waas June 25th, 2014 at 14:12
Wrong again. Your view is the one you’ve been brainwashed to believe because you’re told it is impossible for conservative Christians to put into action what secular progressive liberals only preach.
“Liberals give themselves far too much credit just for being liberal. To many liberals, all one needs to do to be wise, intelligent, compassionate, open minded, and sensitive is to BE LIBERAL. In other words, many of the good things about a person spring not from his actions, but from the ideology he holds.
This has an obvious appeal. You can be a diehard misogynist, but plausibly call yourself a feminist, hate blacks, but accuse others of racism, have a sub-par IQ and be an intellectual, give nothing to charity and be compassionate, etc.,etc., and all you have to do is call yourself a liberal. It’s a shortcut to virtue much like the corrupt old idea of religious indulgences.
Why live a life of virtue when you could live a sinful life and buy your way into heaven? If you’re a liberal, why actually live a life of virtue when you can merely call
yourself a liberal and get credit for being virtuous, even when you’ve done nothing to earn it?” – John Hawkins
Bunya June 26th, 2014 at 10:14
I’m brainwashed? You’re the one who believe th invisible man in the sky is going to reward you after you die if you believe whatever they tell you to believe. And then you have the balls to criticize Muslims, gays. atheists and liberals? You’re an idiot.
Run along now Bob. You don’t want to be late for the “war on Christmas”. It’s only 6 months away and will be here before you know it.
Bunya June 26th, 2014 at 10:20
And one more thing. I hear they’re opening up a new Planned Parenthood clinic in California. Here’s your chance to become a real hero for your god. Grab yer shootin’ iron and be the first one on your block to kill a doctor or a poor elderly woman going in for her yearly exam – in Jesus’ name, of course.
Bob Waas June 26th, 2014 at 21:16
There is evidence to prove the existence of God. No one is forced to believe. You’re confusing that with Islam. Christians are invited, but not forced. I said you’re brainwashed because if you were thinking for yourself you would see the evidence of Christians going around the world to help the less fortunate.
Franklin Graham’s Samaritan’s Purse is a good example of outreach. They usually get to disaster areas before the Red Cross.
This past week my wife and I served at a Vacation Bible School. All week the kids would bring in their change; some brought in their whole piggy bank and emptied in the collection bucket. What was the money for? Clean water for the people of India.
As for your comment regarding PP, Christians don’t advocate violence against those whose beliefs are in opposition to ours and if someone does do something stupid (like the guy who killed Tiller the abortion doctor) we denounce it. To say that one believes certain behavior is sinful is not the same thing as criticizing them for bad behavior or job performance; like Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton in the WH and Obama’s MIA management style.
As for atheists, I don’t force them to believe, I criticize them for forcing their beliefs or lack thereof on other religious holidays. The don’t live and let live. Muslims have not shown me any endearing values that I would want to embrace. They have contributed nothing to the founding of America or our culture; instead, they move from deplorable living conditions and oppressive governments to a free country and then try to make it like the dysfunctional hole in the earth they just came from. Check France and England as examples.
Bunya June 27th, 2014 at 10:13
“There is evidence to prove the existence of God…”
Can I see your proof?
“You’re confusing that with Islam”
You apparently know nothing about Islam. I guess it’s much easier for you to condemn them rather than work to understand them.
“Christians going around the world to help the less fortunate.”
And of course nobody else does that. Only Christians.
“Franklin Graham’s Samaritan’s Purse”
I’m sure he’s much less generous when it comes to extending his purse to gays.
“This past week my wife and I served at a Vacation Bible School”
Well good for you!! Give yourself a HUGE pat on the back – and take an ad out in the newspaper proclaiming what a kind and generouse person you are.
” Christians don’t advocate violence”
Spare me your feigned concern. Nobody was more happy that Dr. Tiller was murdered that the Christian right. Don’t believe me? Check out some of those religious sites. They are dripping with hatred.
“I criticize them for forcing their beliefs”
Hmmm. Project much. I’ll admit, you so-called “chrischuns” are experts at projecting your hatred onto others.
“Muslims have not shown me any endearing values that I would want to embrace.”
Before you trash someone, perhaps you should study history so you can better understand why they’ve come to possess those values of which you disapprove.
Bob Waas June 27th, 2014 at 22:37
You are experiencing some comprehension issues right now. My mentioning of Vacation Bible School was not to pat myself on the back, but to applaud the children for caring about others and giving their own money.
There is more evidence to prove the existence of God than there is to prove there is no God. If you are seriously interested, I would be happy to share some with you.
Do you have any evidence that Franklin Graham’s Samaritan’s Purse ever discriminated against anyone, ever. Do you think when they bring supplies and food to those in need they check their sexual orientation? If you ask him is homosexuality a sin he will most certainly say yes. That doesn’t mean he treats them differently and you’ll never find where he did.
I stated that Christians go around the world helping others because you insinuated that Christians only do this for show. You said others are doing as much; I didn’t say they weren’t.
As for Islam, I see enough each and every day all around the world with displays of their barbaric behavior in the name of allah. Their Quran teaches hate for all non-Muslims and they prove it each and every day. They claim to be a religion of peace; but they are anything but. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm
Btw, I went to a seminar on Islam to get a better understanding of their religion. When people asked about what the Quran says about the Infidel, the speaker said, we have different versions, so you must have read the wrong one.
Here’s a guy who grew up in England and saw first hand what Islam has done to the country. Check what he has to say.
http://www.fortressoffaith.org/blog/author/tomwallace/
Please feel free to keep boasting how great Islam is, but check this site before you do. http://www.jihadwatch.org/#
Bunya June 28th, 2014 at 17:37
And you keep sitting on your high horse, hating everybody that doesn’t believe exactly as you do. I’m sure your savior will reward you greatly for your contempt of your fellow man after you die. And if you expire before I do, don’t save me a seat in your hereafter. I can’t stand the heat.
But while you’re here, keep putting on that big show for all to see. Show everybody how wonderful, compassionate and caring you are to those less fortunate. Make sure everybody takes notice of how you discriminate against no one. And at the end of the day, go home to your lily white house in your upscale white neighborhood, take a hot shower and wash off anything reminiscent of poor people, or Jews, or Muslims, or blacks, or illegals, or gays. Grab your glass of bourbon, sit in front of your big screen TV, tuned to Fox “News”, and complain about how lazy the poor are, how cheap the Jews are, how barbaric the Muslims are, how filthy the illegals are and how disgusting the gays are.
You charlatans deserve nothing but contempt. I have more respect for the KKK than you frauds. At least they show their true colors. We know exactly what to expect from them. You, on the other hand, remind me of a Jim Jones. So charismatic, so Hitler-esque. You put on a great facade in public, but hide and evil, hate-filled heart.
Bob Waas June 28th, 2014 at 20:49
It’s good you get out all your aggression by falsely accusing others for a behavior you yourself exhibit. You list all of these issues so eloquently that I’m sure you have some personal experience with them. “For the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders…”
Considering your hate laced diatribe I would say you did a good job of sharing all you innermost hatred towards others.
Bunya June 30th, 2014 at 10:26
Interesting. For somebody who vehemently despises Muslims, gays and those who you perceive to be “sinners”, you sure have a penchant for accusing others of exhibiting the same vile behavior you, yourself, display. But I’m not surprised. You holier than thou chrischuns are notorious for projecting their hatred onto others. I use the term “chrischuns” because one has to be a follower of Christ in order to be called a Christian – not just a fan.
Bob Waas June 30th, 2014 at 20:31
I don’t despise Muslims, I just don’t trust them. They hate the western lifestyle. Muslims kill Christians everyday. Do you know of any Christians accused of killing Muslims?
I certainly don’t despise gays.
You on the other hand have much hate for Christians and make false accusations about those whom you do not know.
My former pastor had a gay man come to his office and ask him what the bible said about homosexuality. He told him it is a sin, but God loves him anyway. The man would show up every few months to ask the same question and the pastor gave the same answer. Over time they became friends and when the gay man’s partner died from aids, the pastor conducted the funeral.
You think that disagreeing with someone because of the choices they make is a cause to be hateful; in my circle that just isn’t so; but apparently in yours it is SOP
Bunya June 30th, 2014 at 21:04
“I don’t despise Muslims, I just don’t trust them”
LOL! Oh that’s a good one, Bob. You should use it every time you trash Muslims.
“I certainly don’t despise gays.”
Of course not! You love them, but you disapprove of their (ahem) “Lifestyle choice”. By the way, when did you discover you were straight? Is that your lifestyle choice? If so, why is yours better than theirs?
“You on the other hand have much hate for Christians”
You got me there, Bob. Especially the sanctimonious do-gooders who kill doctors, bomb clinics and trash gays, all in Jesus’ name.
” He told him it is a sin, but God loves him anyway.”
Now I’m confused. I thought your god had a special place for sinners, full of fire and brimstone. If that’s how your god shows his love for sinners,well, let’s just say I’ll stick with my God.
“…in my circle that just isn’t so…”
Keep reminding us, Bob. Maybe one day you’ll be successful in convincing yourself.
Bob Waas July 1st, 2014 at 14:38
Gays don’t need my approval or disapproval, they only need God’s approval. God does have a place for those who refuse to repent from their sins; it’s called hell.
It’s funny when folks like you say it is wrong to condemn all Muslims for the actions of a few; but you condemn all Christians for the actions of a few.
You didn’t answer the previous question, “Do you know of any Christians accused of killing Muslims, while crying out ‘God is great’?”
Bunya July 1st, 2014 at 15:14
If gays don’t need your approval, stop judging them, If your god has a special place for the unrepentent, great! Feel free believe what you will, but don’t condemn others to the same fate. Remember, not everyone worships the same narcissistic, vindictive god that you do.
I also find it interesting that you, yourself, would condemn a whole religion for the actions of a few
“”Do you know of any Christians accused of killing Muslims…”
I can’s say for sure what, if anything, was said by the Christians during the crusades because I wasn’t around to hear their battle cries. However, it IS common knowledge that Christians killed hundreds of thousands of Curds and Muslims simply for religious purposes. Of course, I would be remiss if I didn’t mention the famous “inquisition”, which resulted in the deaths of thousands of Muslims (for heresy) by way of brutal torture. And let’s not forget the reason we invaded Iraq was under strict instruction by God thru Dubya.
Do you think that perhaps, maybe the Muslims are getting pretty pissed off at our arrogent attitude?
pmichael June 20th, 2014 at 20:48
“Another Presbyterian group, the Presbyterian Lay Committee, protested the vote, saying the church “has committed an express repudiation of the Bible.”
ROTFLMAO
Yeah, another guy also did that (‘you were taught an eye for an eye’). His name was Jesus – and he changed the above to “turn the other cheek” – a phrase the ‘Right’ seems to have a great deal of difficulty with. *L*
Bob Waas June 20th, 2014 at 21:37
Those who take the bible out of context are often wrong in their interpretation.
“To “turn the other cheek,” does not imply pacifism, nor does it mean we place ourselves or others in mortal danger. Like the principle of the eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth in Matthew 5:38, turning the other cheek refers to personal retaliation, not criminal offenses or acts of military aggression.”
“Turning the other cheek means not to return insult for insult in retaliation, which is what most people expect and how worldly people act.”
Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/turn-other-cheek.html#ixzz35EWdQXJT
pmichael June 21st, 2014 at 05:59
I understand, Bob – but you seem to be sidestepping that Jesus Himself made it pretty clear He was instituting a ‘change’.
–
Thank you – old friend Obewon. As you can see, I’m still breathing. On the positive side, the board has decided doing things on-the-cheap has just been disastrous for the Roots project. An actual corporate lawyer has been hired – and while I still have no real time-schedule, it would appear things are finally moving forward. The lawyer finally got through to the Sec here in CA and made some changes which were holding up the process. Who would have thought a “mutual” benefit non-profit would be that different from a “public” benefit. *sigh*
Bottom line on not cutting corners (and the tab people are willing to donate) – $2,100
pmichael June 21st, 2014 at 06:05
Oh – by the way, Bob. “Those who take the bible out of context” began with the horrific Greek Septuagint – and continued from there. As we say in the Roots project, “Please don’t call it Genesis.”
Obewon June 20th, 2014 at 22:40
Thank you Padre Michael for your insight as a former Pastor, accurately piercing the veil! (CNN) — The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) voted Thursday to allow pastors to marry same-sex couples in states where it is legal in 24+ states already! The losers the Presbyterian Lay Committee are sourpussed by their lack of lay.
pmichael June 20th, 2014 at 20:48
“Another Presbyterian group, the Presbyterian Lay Committee, protested the vote, saying the church “has committed an express repudiation of the Bible.”
ROTFLMAO
Yeah, another guy also did that (‘you were taught an eye for an eye’). His name was Jesus – and he changed the above to “turn the other cheek” – a phrase the ‘Right’ seems to have a great deal of difficulty with. *L*
Bob Waas June 20th, 2014 at 21:37
Those who take the bible out of context are often wrong in their interpretation.
“To “turn the other cheek,” does not imply pacifism, nor does it mean we place ourselves or others in mortal danger. Like the principle of the eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth in Matthew 5:38, turning the other cheek refers to personal retaliation, not criminal offenses or acts of military aggression.”
“Turning the other cheek means not to return insult for insult in retaliation, which is what most people expect and how worldly people act.”
Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/turn-other-cheek.html#ixzz35EWdQXJT
pmichael June 21st, 2014 at 05:59
I understand, Bob – but you seem to be sidestepping that Jesus Himself made it pretty clear He was instituting a ‘change’.
–
Thank you – old friend Obewon. As you can see, I’m still breathing. On the positive side, the board has decided doing things on-the-cheap has just been disastrous for the Roots project. An actual corporate lawyer has been hired – and while I still have no real time-schedule, it would appear things are finally moving forward. The lawyer finally got through to the Sec here in CA and made some changes which were holding up the process. Who would have thought a “mutual” benefit non-profit would be that different from a “public” benefit. *sigh*
Bottom line on not cutting corners (and the tab people are willing to donate) – $2,100
pmichael June 21st, 2014 at 06:05
Oh – by the way, Bob. “Those who take the bible out of context” began with the horrific Greek Septuagint – and continued from there. As we say in the Roots project, “Please don’t call it Genesis.”
Obewon June 20th, 2014 at 22:40
Thank you Padre Michael for your insight as a former Pastor, accurately piercing the veil! (CNN) — The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) voted Thursday to allow pastors to marry same-sex couples in 19+ equal-marriage states & D.C.! The losers the Presbyterian Lay Committee are sourpussed by their lack of getting laid. Any remaining equal marriage bans are being quickly overturned as unconstitutionally in denial of the 10th & 5th amendments per SCOTUS ‘unfair taxation without due process/equal representation.’ WWJD? Equal-Rights for all!
Kids indoctrinated in religion have trouble telling what’s true and not true? Do tell… | Holes in the Foam July 20th, 2014 at 07:25
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